We’ve all known that most triple-A games release broken on the PC, however it’s good witnessing a former NVIDIA dev publicly acknowledging this while at the same time revealing some new ‘inside’ information about what’s happening with those ‘Game-Ready’ drivers we’ve been getting when really big games come out.
GameDev’s forum member ‘Promit‘ (who was an ex-NVIDIA driver developer) claimed that nearly every triple-A game ships broken (or at least shipped broken when he was working for the green team):
“Nearly every game ships broken. We’re talking major AAA titles from vendors who are everyday names in the industry. In some cases, we’re talking about blatant violations of API rules – one D3D9 game never even called BeginFrame/EndFrame. Some are mistakes or oversights – one shipped bad shaders that heavily impacted performance on NV drivers. These things were day to day occurrences that went into a bug tracker. Then somebody would go in, find out what the game screwed up, and patch the driver to deal with it. There are lots of optional patches already in the driver that are simply toggled on or off as per-game settings, and then hacks that are more specific to games – up to and including total replacement of the shipping shaders with custom versions by the driver team. Ever wondered why nearly every major game release is accompanied by a matching driver release from AMD and/or NVIDIA? There you go.”
Promit shared his opinion about a lot of topics, and talked a bit about multi-GPUs. As NVIDIA’s former developer said, multi-GPUs are f’ing complicated.
“You cannot begin to conceive of the number of failure cases that are involved until you see them in person. I suspect that more than half of the total software effort within the IHVs is dedicated strictly to making multi-GPU setups work with existing games. (And I don’t even know what the hardware side looks like.) If you’ve ever tried to independently build an app that uses multi GPU – especially if, god help you, you tried to do it in OpenGL – you may have discovered this insane rabbit hole. There is ONE fast path, and it’s the narrowest path of all.”
Promit concluded that these issues will be mostly addressed by the new APIs. The new APIs, Promit said, are the right step, and they’re retroactively useful to old hardware.
It remains to be seen whether developers will be able to code properly for these new APIs!
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
Contact: Email
Redirecting flak away from the driver team and to the game developers. Nice.
But it is true and it does make sense, very few games have proper focus on PC, even fewer games take into consideration all the possible hardware configurations or support for multi-gpu.
This means that then the driver teams from GPU vendors are forced to do their work for them and they can’t always fix those fundamental issues in the games.
I can imagine it now, ubisoft giving them a broken game and they have to add the nvidia stuff in it, which dont work without patching up the the things the devs didnt even bother to finish.
Nvidia sends their Gameworks engineers to their dev teams to help them, i have a feeling they have to do all the work for them.
me too 🙁
It’s true but Nvidia can’t say a damn thing about it to avoid conflict. This guy, out of frustration most likely, decided to say something to defend Nvidia.
I dont think he is defending nvidia more like speaking out of frrustration about his old job and the problems he had to deal with.
We will never know for a fact, but remember when someone said that unity wasnt even at 30 fps a few months before release…judging by the perfomance of the game, that was true.
It’s a miracle they could achieve any sort of optimization with unity.
being under 30 and going to 18 at times is not optimization in the slightest
The drivers dont jus work, there are a lot of people who spend alot of time to make sure thousands of games work at the same time. I dont think he is redirecting anything, only proves what we suspected that they get pc builds that aren’t even finished so the driver team can take it from there.
Nvidia spends millions on driver support each year, they send out their own engineers to dev teams, they have computer farms with different performance ranges and specs to test compatibility and stability, it’s tonne of work.
i know we take it for granted but nvidia spends alot of time and money to make sure games work with the driver updates.
One of the main reasons why i’m with Nvidia, i value the driver support and multi GPU support which are both way better than AMD’s.
True amd however has better backwards compability for older games.
Huh? Where’s the evidence for that?
not so much as evidence than personal experiance, project IGI has artifacts on nvida, works on amd, cerain old games have freezes for me on nvidia card but my amd laptop plays them fine.
Well personal experience means nothing to anyone but yourself, so…
Well i play old games all the time, but for what is worth my point stands, i cant think of old games that do not work on amd.
I couldn’t get Star Craft to display properly on my HD 7950.
It sounds like bad game-ready drivers are a result of Nvidia / AMD not doing the dev’s jobs well enough.
Which makes sense. Writing code for hardware the guys down the hall designed is pretty easy (figuratively; they’re most likely hundreds of miles apart, but they can still easily ask questions).
But fixing bugs made by a hundred developers failing to write good code? Not so easy. Nvidia’s better at it than AMD. Could be a funding issue, might be a talent one. Finding problems takes pure man hours, and man hours are expensive. The group with the most money to throw at it is going to find the most problems.
nice someone publicly stated what we all knew about.
Whoever’s fault it really is, the fact that these £40/50/60 games are even leaving the factory/developers, as something they’re classing as a ‘ready’, or a ‘finished’ product is a truly disgusting practice. Something needs to give, because this can’t carry on. Perhaps a big court case, that will hit them in the pockets and hopefully it will make it into a more mainstream news story.
@disqus_RvYfgXGO6U:disqus
This seems to be limited to rendering issues. Much of the issues on consoles have been connected games and network resources. Some of these games required patches at the server level. Developers only have so many resources to test a connected game, you need to launch before you will reveal some issues. There is no way to BETA test in a manner that replicates your “launch evening” when everyone is slamming your servers.
That comes from a guy that said
“ps4 has some secret sony sauce in it”
“you are not intelligent enough to read dualshockers”
“i am pc engineer but i prefer consoles because you can sit down in the couch and relax”
PFTTTTTTTTTT
@daka54:disqus
Care to expand on this and perhaps use proper English? If you want to make a dig at people it helps to use a common language. Otherwise you just look like a durka durka dipshit.
Read the article. He is an NVIDIA guy, PS4 XBONE is AMD/ATI. PS3 and X360 don’t get driver updates for every major game release. Sony and Microsoft both have to approve the code that will run on their systems I would think they would want to make sure there were no major driver issues. Much easier to get the developer to change the game than to get AMD to give you a custom driver.
Hey i am just saying what you said, its not me who looks like a dipshit you make nonsensical statments like that and fail to show any techinical knowledge.
” PS3 and X360 don’t get driver updates for every major game release.”
No they dont but ps4 and xbone do.
Ps nothing wrong with my english you just mad someone called you on your bs.
@daka54:disqus
I own a PS4 and I have good friends that own XBONE. Games come out every Tuesday. Firmware updates (which would include driver updates) are not deployed every Tuesday. You are factually incorrect on this matter.
Feel free to look over PS4’s history of Firmware updates. You will note that many updates have happened to add features to the PS4.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software
Same goes for Xbox One.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_One_system_software
Note the frequency of the updates by no means matches the frequency of game releases (every Tuesday).
Sony astroturfer gets called out and cries about it. A normal reaction when a peasant wanders onto DSOG
By the way, they do get updates and games still ship broken, shill.
Indeed, LOLing hard at that hypocrite of a $0N¥ pauper.
@Thievesallofthem:disqus
I am LOLing hard at your minimum wage paycheck that your minimal brain qualifies you for.
The funny thing is he couldnt even put any effort into proving his cred, he said “you stupid, lean english”
What do you expect from a fanboy that puts “dualshockers” and “intelligent” in the same sentence?
@daka54:disqus
I don’t need to uplift my credibility when I am flanked by idiots like yourself.
So far you are a laughing joke here and you still havent proven anything. just scram peasant.
@The_Glorious_PC_Master_Race:disqus
Sony Astroturfer? Did you stay up all night thinking of that one?
I never said that Sony and MS didn’t update their systems. I did say that Sony and MS do not update their systems with EVERY MAJOR AAA GAME RELEASE. If that was the case the PS4 and XBONE would get a new Firmware every week. Anyone who owns these systems knows that is not the case.
Funny thing is it seems that NVIDIA and ATI both have to make changes to their drivers because of the sloppy programming that comes with PC game development.
The vast majority of issues with console games recently was mostly games with an online element. PC is not immune to launch day issues.
If you aren’t able to write and read English maybe commenting on the internet is above your pay grade. Why don’t you head back to school? There is still time to do something with your life.
11 upvotes by the way
@daka54:disqus
Are you shocked that 11 people on the internet are as stupid as you?
I am kind of shocked it isn’t more. 🙂
Obviously and al lthose people who didnt rate the order well are stupid because they dont agree with you.
Seriously you have to look up at two words in the dictionary.
DELUSION and FANBOY.
You are a prime example of both.
@daka54:disqus
You are just all over the place aren’t you? When you loose one point you just make up another because you have no other place to go.
I liked The Order — Big deal? It was a decent game. Kind of short but a good ride.
You are the worst kind of fanboy there is. You are apart of the PC Caliphate you spread your Gospel like an ISIS terrorist. Why don’t you give it a rest? How much of a loser can you prove yourself to be?
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Where is the part that you prove your cred?
AHAHHAHAH oh got so now you comparing pc gamers who actually call devs up on their bs and not give em a free pass becuase they making a exlusive…TERRORISTS….again, you calling pc gamers terorrists.
It seems you do not seem to understand how much of a FANBOY you are kid. You are so up sonys butt that you feed from their feces, you are always there damage controling protecting a CORPERATION that dosnt care from you from consumer critisism….and you call me a loser?
Go to the looneybin where you belong and hang out with demfax.
@daka54:disqus
It is no secret to anyone that there are many active PC game enthusiast that comment on game articles and are constantly suggesting if you play on any other platform beyond the PC you are some kind of idiot, peasant, noob, [insert derogatory term here].
It’s like you are a Jehovah’s witness spreading your PC Gospel and off with the heads of anyone who disagrees with the love of your high priced hardware.
I coined the term PC Caliphate because it’s timely and I find it to be humorous. You guys are terrorist within the comment section. You tend to defile any rational conversation with your idiotic mantras and memes. It’s the antithesis to logic and sound reasoning.
When people disagree you label them a Fanboy (infidel).
Do you need any more comparisons? Or is this sort of metaphor outside of your mental faculties? Do they have metaphors in your native land? It doesn’t seem like they have schools.
I dont think they are many i think there is one and hes multiple acounts.
The pc master race is a meme and if you take it seriously, well perhaps you shouldnt take the “console war” seriously. The problem isnt that console gamers are “idiots” the problem is alot of the fanboys who go around arguing abou specs and perfomance are idiots and they shouldnt even bother with those things when pc is around just enjoy the game. Its riddiculus to go on about specs when pc is aroung. These people are ignorant morons aka “peasants”
“anyone who disagrees with the love of your high priced hardware.”
Like i said idiots, even low end pcs beat consoles, stay ignorant peasant.
“I coined the term PC Caliphate”
No wonder its so unexciting. It doesnt “Trigger” anyone.”
” You guys are terrorist within the comment section.”
First of all AHAHAH you make fun of my english now but you FAILED yourself. So yeah learn english kid SEE i can flame too!!!
HAHAHAH lol seriously? You sony fanboys are doing that, pc gamers dont need to be in any comment section i still laugh at that comment section in “star citizen creator says the new consoles are great because they make everything easier for pc gaming”
It had NOTHING to do with consoles yet the entire comment section was filled with console fanboys going on about who has the most power and the best exlusives.
I counted like 2 comments about star citizen or pc gaming.
Conclusion, you dont need pc gamers, you console fanboys are killing each other in the comment sections al the time.
Did it occur to you this fanboyism pissed off pc gamers and they joined in and destroyed you with FACTS?
Thats what happen, tone it down on the fanboysm of which has the best system and there wont be any need for pc gamers to comment. Then again i found you whinning about a article saying that pc gaming is superior now because of 4k, WTF WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE?
Seriosuly its clear as day you are a fanboy so dont give me any of that trash you poping up in pc discussions all the time.
Next time you try to act all mighty, you might wanna check your privilige… ehhh sorry , i meant fanboyism. So yeah check your fanboyism first and then we talk. Once again this is a pc site, we talk about pc stuff and YOU brought consoles.
Do you see how much of a hypocrite you are?
MORON
“You tend to defile any rational conversation with your idiotic mantras
and memes. It’s the antithesis to logic and sound reasoning.”
hahahahahahha fanboy cosnole wars have rational conversation with LOGIC?
Oh yes because “xbots” and “xtwats” are much better than memes.
Get over yourself moron.
“When people disagree you label them a Fanboy (infidel).”
AHAHAHHAHA AAHAHAHAH
OH god the irony hurts EVERY FREAKING TIME i say something that isnt thes best of the best regarding ps4 i am getting labeled as a “xbot” or a “xtwat” while i am as you say PC MASTER RACE.
“Do you need any more comparisons? Or is this sort of metaphor outside
of your mental faculties? Do they have metaphors in your native land?
It doesn’t seem like they have schools.”
Your comparisons have failed 100% and i proven you how HYPOCRITICAL you console fanboys are, so please moron dont talk about my mental faculties while you are a stranger to irony and as for my native land, atleast my native land isnt my mothers basement and my way or arguing isnt flaming someone who destroyed my argument and exposed me a shill.
Now quit wasting my time with pointless internet insults and kindly go back at your hole basement dweller.
TL:DR
Kindly go choke on your own manhood and die bottom feeder.
I am sure this Disqus account will get banned like your last one.
My last one acount didnt get banned, i still have it, wanna see it?
Also i destroyed you and now yet you keep going?
I do know that you are a a troll but i am gonna give you a good advice, STOP GOING TO N4G, seriously stop, maybe then you can get the console wars from your head and acting like a human being.
@daka54:disqus
Destroyed me? LOL Whatever bro. What happens on the net doesn’t make me loose any sleep. I think you may have a bit of an overinflated sense of self. Go back to hanging out with your PC Caliphate comment terrorists. 🙂 You haven’t changed my mind about anything, although you did impress me by whipping out a 4th grade vocabulary. Good job, make sure you let your mom know maybe she will print this out and put it on the fridge. 🙂
Good luck with your future minimum wage endeavors!!
Actually i proven to you that it is YOU the console gamers who are the comment terrorists, you comment on my vocabulary while i speak 4 languages and you speak only once.
Seems to me the one who needs luck with his life is you pal, but hey what you are doing is create stereotypical assumptions and present them as ad hominem attacks to cover up the fact that you luck the intelligence and debating skills to win an argument.
Hows that for a vocabulary MERICAN?
Lol i am not even a english speaker and i destroyed you.
Next time you SWAG around remember i d like fries with my chicken.
Almost “AAA” new releases are in beta stages.
WE,PC gamers, spend a lot of money for every new HW on the market.
And for what: for beta games from loosy and greedy games company who give us(after xx months) some console port games ?
Honestly: **ck them all!!!
I understand its hard to make sure games on pc work and it takes alot of time and money..but come on, 2014 was a disaster.
Since 2013 it has been a disaster. Hell since 2012 the industry had ran out of ideas making copies of each other just like Disney and their movies. 2015 also saw it’s share of the 2013 nuking pc gaming saw from really bad development and publishers. I only hope it gets fixed soon and we can finally look fowards to 2016
whoever is at fault? the stupid consumer that pre orders sh**ty games based on hype. those are the ones at fault
He posted zero proof that he worked for nvidia.
You clearly don’t frequent the GameDev.net forums to know of Promit and the folks in there.
You can take what he said as fact.
Given this guy is an NVIDIA driver developer is he referring to Console or PC Games? What does an NVIDIA driver guy have to do with technical support for the NVIDIA APIs?
Everything you might know this but the drivers dont just work, alot of people spending alot of time to make sure everything works behind the scens and while we cant confirm that this guy is from nvidia, having to fix things by themselfs because the build they got was broken is really sad.
@daka54:disqus
This is definitely about PC he is saying that he has to code new drivers to make up for the mistakes in the programming. Makes sense that he would be privy to the technical support issues, he is apart of the solution. The PS4 and Xbox One don’t get updates for every game that comes out.
“The PS4 and Xbox One don’t get updates for every game that comes out.”
They do.
He’s truly a desperate damage controlling $0N¥ pauper, it’s hilarious.
@Thievesallofthem:disqus
This is even about Sony you ignorant imbecile. Go back down to mommy’s basement and think about what you have done troll.
@Thievesallofthem:disqus
I found one of your selfies.
Looks more like you
@daka54:disqus
I own a PS4 and I have good friends that own XBONE. Games come out every Tuesday. Firmware updates (which would include driver updates) are not deployed every Tuesday. You are factually incorrect on this matter.
You said updates i thought you meant game updates which i am correct, firmwire no you dont get driver updates every week, consoles dont need em. But its not like a driverupdate comes out everysingle time a new game launches, that would be riddiculus, you can download one for the big release but its not needed to run the game.
@daka54:disqus
I said FIRMWARE UPDATES. Let’s cough this up to the fact that you quit school and didn’t learn proper English. This is why we can’t talk, you don’t know how to speak English well enough to make a goddamn point.
Good luck with your minimum wage life.
AHAHAHAHh oh got you are so salty that you have to bash my english in a desperate attempt to downplay my intelligence.
You got a picture that says SWAG and you talk about intelligence AHAHAHHA ok i dont know how to tell you this but english is not my primary language i speak 4 languages how many you speak?
Just english eh? Not suprised.
@daka54:disqus
Go ahead and rag on the Pimp SWAG Cat he likely gets more a*s than you.
I only speak English, but at least I don’t make up stories about knowing 4 languages and not being able to speak any of them over a 3rd grade level.
I think the fries are up Junior, better get back to work.
Of course not. Mutli-GPU setups are still going to be an after thought with devs. If they probably coded a game properly to feature multi-gpu support. SLi/Crossfire of gpu’s from two generations ago would run at 1080p/1440p/4k at 60fps, no problem.
We’ve all known that most triple-A games release broken on the PC, however it’s good witnessing a former NVIDIA dev publicly
—What the hell are people talking about console games for, does nvidia make pc drivers for console games……………didn’t think so
@Jamesworkshop:disqus
According to @daka54:disqus & @The_Glorious_PC_Master_Race:disqus PC games ship flawlessly all the time.
You don’t think their love of PC gaming would affect their ability to tell the truth about their platform do you?
We never said that moron, stop making things up
we already heard that from Mantle Devs when they talked about why they made it
You dont need a firmwire update for every game that comes out and BTW indies dont need any kind of divers on pc. So you are just going around in circles.
Or perhaps they need to stop adding so many “new features” (i.e. bugs) and stick with what works!!