All hell broke loose yesterday when Reddit’s sub-reddit /r/GameDeals banned GreenManGaming. As the sub-reddit’s moderators claimed, it came to their attention that GreenManGaming was selling games that was not authorized to by the publishers. And as you may have expected, GreenManGaming responded to these accusations.
We will be presenting below both sides, so you will be the judge of who is right and who is wrong.
Since we’re partnering with GMG, we’d like you to know that this whole controversy won’t affect us at all. We’ re giving GMG the benefit of doubt. If, however, GMG’s keys get suspended/revoked (like the ones from G2A) we will stop supporting them. For your interest, Ubisoft, Activision and all the other publishers have never suspended/revoked GMG’s keys.
As /r/GameDeals’ moderators claimed:
“It has now come to our attention that GreenManGaming’s library of unauthorized game sales has expanded, or this library has just now come to light. You may have noticed recently some “too good to be true” deals on GreenManGaming. We received a few modmails/emails on the subject so we investigated.
From what we have been told by the publishers, GreenManGaming is not authorized to sell Activision or Ubisoft titles, as well as CDProjektRED’s The Witcher 3.
We observed the sales on Activision’s Black Ops 3, and we noticed that their customers received mixed results. Some customers received a ROW copy of Black Ops 3. Others received ROW+Nuketown (pre-order DLC). And others received invalid keys. This is often the result of buying unauthorized keys. Stores will often obtain the keys through different sources to meet the number of sales, but can’t assure the customers are getting the same product, or if it’s even valid. (There was a large number of invalid keys for The Witcher 3 as well.)”
GreenManGaming has issued the following statement (thanks Gamespot):
“Dear Reddit
First of all, we are very disappointed that we were unable to come to a mutual understanding with the Reddit Game Deal moderators: /r/GameDeals
Over the past year, we have been repeatedly asked to supply sensitive information regarding contracts between us and publishers, which for legal reason we simply cannot share, nor should we be expected to. We believe that other retailers featured on Reddit Game Deals have not been afforded the same level of scrutiny and investigation that we have endured, and that ultimately, customers will be missing out on information and deals.
We find the research carried out by the Reddit Game Deal mods has been subjective or inaccurate. We know they share the same aims as we do; to offer customers great value on great games, so it brings us no pleasure to publicly state – they are wrong.
http://i.imgur.com/jEjIIzu.png?1
We have always been transparent that for us, the customer is our priority. We have withdrawn from Reddit Game Deals as we no longer have the time and resources to keep offering proof and statements to their persistent group of moderators. Our focus as always should be and is our customers.
We reiterate that we source our keys from a range of over 400 publishers, developers, and distributors to meet customer’s demands on a title by title basis. Let’s be clear here; there is a difference between being an authorised retailer for some titles, and being a retailer selling keys that have been sourced responsibly through authorised third parties with revenue going back to the publisher. If a key unlocks, it is an authentic key. This isn’t a perfect science as human error can affect the supply chain. Where possible, we work directly with publishers and distributors to make sure customers have the very best experience with us.
Whenever things outside of our control have happened, we have instantly and fairly tried to make it right. We accept that we don’t always get it right, and we are sorry for any inconvenience caused. We’d like to take this opportunity to thank our customers, the Reddit Game Deal community, and everyone who has supported us.
Thank you
Paul Sulyok CEO Green Man Gaming
and The Green Team”
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
Contact: Email
The simple solution to for this whole gray market thing would be for all publishers to have a list of sites that they deem authorized key resellers on their websites. It’s ridiculous trying to figure out where I can and cannot safely buy games.
Publishers and self published devs will differ but if you’re looking for steam specifically there are only a few: http://www.epicbundle.com/official-steam-reseller
You know they will never do that. It’s not in their best interest, since we, the consumers are not the only ones on the lookout. Same reason GMG won’t disclose their contracts.
They have a list, but GMG isn’t in some of them. The problem came (from my understanding) in the fact that GMG claims that they are authorized. It isn’t illegal, it is in fact grey, but the moral of what they are claiming is what generated the buzz.
I doubt someone gives a sheet about this. There are other stores in that subreddit which aren’t exactly saint either. The problem is they’re just too small to bother, while GMG, on other hand, became much bigger over the past few years. Enough to became a pain in the $ss for someone.
Indeed, and the whole thing became this whole miscommunicated mess because that particular sub is quite big so the spread was large.
I don’t want to cast aspersions on anyone but what happened to r/gamedeals. That used to be the place for great deals from all sources including less than reputable sellers. It wasn’t about upstanding sellers it was about deals on games. This is the place that showed how to vpn to india to buy Titanfall for $20 something US dollars.
As for Green Man Gaming does this really stop most people from buying from them? Not that I in any way advocate credit card fraud or theft but as long as the key works I’m not asking questions, G2a, kinguin, Nuuvem etc they’re all in the same league to me.
It’s hard to decide anything, because we don’t know the whole situation from the inside. But as someone said, this thread has impacted my trust in r/gamedeals more than it has GMG. I bought many Steam keys from them, and never had any problems, so there is something I can vouch for. Reddit mods? I don’t even know who they are.
Basically, mods from r/gamedeals are trying to force GMG to demonstrate their contracts to them, but of course they won’t do that for various reasons. Other than that, they don’t have anything to prove their accusations.
gmg is good.they are not like g2a at all.
wait, if g2arena is shady and steals keys, how do they still operate?
they arnt in the us and have sites set up in different countries to sell keys.
motherfu ckers…
they cant go after them because of other countries laws but the publishers can deactivate those cdkeys which they have been doing.
use the site if you want and hope you dont get screwed.
i did once or twice, i guess i just got lucky
I know right? Those bastards! I bet they were behind Paris too!
Ignore the so-called “logic” he’s peddling, for whatever reason;
Yes, there ARE people who steal keys, I’m not denying this, & it IS up to sites like GMG to make sure the keys they buy aren’t stolen, but by & large, it’s like Torrents – just because the most popular Torrents are rips of Music, Movies, Video Games, eBooks, etc. it doesn’t mean anything. Not every-single Torrent in existence is illegal, just like not every-single key sold on the Grey Market is stolen.
I’ve bought several Grey Market keys (not from GMG, another site) in order to avoid spending an obscene amount on a single VG without having to wait 6-12 months (if not even longer) to get it at a decent price, & I’ve never had issues. They work just fine on Steam & Origin both, Valve doesn’t seem to give a flying f*ck, EA seems to have even given up on Online Passes in order to make money off of second-hand sales, & that’s really all that matters. If Ubisoft abuses uPlay in order to ban your Game License/Account because they think you got it on the cheap, that’s their own problem, since they’re the ones that’ll lose any future profits from that client.
Now, legally speaking; the Grey Market (known as such because it lives in a Legal Grey Area) is a complicated thing, but to be clear; If G2A is found in possession of stolen keys, it doesn’t matter what country in the world they’re operating out of, they can (& eventually will be) arrested for it – so long as they can prove that they knew the keys were stolen (it’s called distribution of stolen goods). Otherwise, they can only arrest G2A’s supplier for the actual theft of the keys. It’s much the same with physical goods; One guy steals the TV, one guy sells it. One gets charged with theft, the other guy gets charged with peddling stolen goods. While technically linked, they’re also entirely separate cases, which are taken to trial entirely separate from each other.
Furthermore, regardless of the “Legal Grey Area” in which the actual distribution portion of the keys lies in; If Publishers had anything more than propaganda bullsh*t “evidence” that the keys in question were stolen, they could go to courts all over the world, much like the MPAA/RIAA has been doing for years with Torrent Sites, & request that the G2A site be blocked, they could get a court order to have Paypal stop processing their payments, they could (& would) get in touch with local authorities, etc. etc. etc.
Why don’t they? Because they have no evidence what-so-ever that G2A is in possession of stolen keys. From the sound of it, neither do Reddit’s Mods –
While this is most probably a case of some Publisher complaining to Reddit for “supporting Grey Market Distribution”, it sounds as if Reddit was fishing for information (while holding the Banhammer over their heads) by basically demanding that G2A hand over a list of their suppliers so Reddit can pick through it. Nothing more, nothing less. G2A just got tired of the endless cockfight & quit.
well as i keep saying this is coming from reddit you pc master race site.
i havent said anything they havent said.but because that where you get you so called cheap games from you get mad an defending..
your own pc master rsce site thet you guys cling to has reported it and said it and they asked the publishers them selves and this is what they said
“GreenManGaming is not authorized to sell Activision or Ubisoft titles, as well as CDProjektRED’s The Witcher 3” pc gamers age just mad now that the truth is out about their cheap games..lol
first was g2a then kingpin and now you can add gmg to that list.
Valve is taking 30% from every copy they sold.
Valve gets enough, that’s why I mean. I’d say more than they deserve nowadays.
Exactly. Valve is a constantly-growing company which unlike most others in the Industry isn’t dumb enough to whine about it to anyone who’ll listen because some of their potential income seeps through the cracks.
That’s exactly what it is, a technicality; It’s not a “the Crime Scene Unit f*cked up the evidence collecting” technicality, or a “oops, we forgot to read him his Miranda Rights” technicality, it’s a “it’s not illegal” technicality.
Undoubtedly Valve cares, since at the end of the day they’re still a business, but; as much as Valve cares about profits lost, they don’t care enough to come up with some ridiculous Anti-Consumer Strategy that will set everyone against them, because they know better. They know to take the money they’re being given, & to not throw constant tantrums to the hands that feed them over wanting more, unlike most others.
Business-wise, I can understand why [Generic Greedy AAA Publisher] wants to get maximum profit from each sale, but as a consumer, I can also understand that not everyone can afford, & even more than that, not everyone is even WILLING to pay full price for most of these Games, especially when they treat us PC Gamers like dirt.
A $60 Game with a $40/50 Season Pass is $100+ right there. Most of the time it’s not even worth half that to most people, but instead of pirating it & getting it for free, they actually cough up the $50/60 that they think it’s worth. Non-Season Pass-attached Games are say $30-40. Compared to 1/2 or even 2/3rds of 0 still being 0, that’s actually something (not to mention something they can brag to their investors about having “moved” if they go for “copies moved” instead of “copies sold”).
Like I said, business-wise, I can understand the cryfest. Consumer-wise, all I can see is AAA’ers whining when they make ridiculous amounts of money, & whining when they don’t make ridiculous amounts of money, with both situations being accompanied by some generic moron-level bullsh*t they think we’re actually stupid enough to fall for, because “dumb masses.”
Let’s imagine how that’ll play out for a moment; The VG version of the MPAA (who’s name completely escapes me at the moment) lobbies to get a law passed in the US that allows them to go to ISPs & demand that Grey Market Websites be blocked. ISP’s lose about…. 10% Web Traffic for 3 days, & then it spikes, because that’s exactly what happened when the MPAA got TPB blocked.
The rest of the world ridicules them for this hilariously stupid move, & a few “World Police” puns are brought up. They regardless parade it as a victory, & try to do the same in the EU, it most likely fails.
The End.
Alternatively; They start bribing the Former-Soviet Union Satellite States/other into passing the laws, & then bribe them some more to get off their lazy asses & go find some Z-level Criminals nobody gives a flying f*ck about? Meh.
You may not like it, but this issue is so minor, they will simply NEVER get the traction they need to pass laws across dozens of countries to get the Sites blocked, which is really the only thing they CAN do, which is also completely pointless, since we’re talking about tech-savvy people, not your average moron trying to download Porn without paying for it.
“Grey market is just the latest episode of PC gamers shooting themselves in the foot.” After….. What? Second-Hand Sales? I think we kinda won that one, even EA’s given up on those ridiculous Online Passes. DRM? Yeah, we kinda got that one bagged too, even Denuvo’s been ripped now. The only way this is ever going to die is if Brick & Mortar Stores die. Until Steam/Origin/uPlay/etc. are the only distribution methods in existence, the Grey Market is an inevitability.
What a load of boolsheet. Just because they sell them cheaper doesn’t mean they were stolen.
And on a side note, they should be cheaper than console games to begin with. We all know that you “honest” peasants love to buy and sell used games, but on PC if you buy a game, that game stays with you forever.
From what we have been told by the publishers, GreenManGaming is not authorized to sell Activision or Ubisoft titles, as well as CDProjektRED’s The Witcher 3.
DID YOU EVEN READ THE ARTICLE AND ITS FROM YOU PC MEGA SITE REDDIT..
i still have games from my ps1,ps2, thay have stayed with we forever.i can play them any time i want.
Not authorized = / = stolen.
yep and everyone swore up and down hey were legit.if publishers are telling reddit this its not good for gmg.
Who? What? Where?
What Publishers? What? What?
pc gamers did sorry..lol
lol exactly, simpletons I tell you.
‘PC MEGA SITE REDDIT’
Uh… what???
Console gamers dirty little secret, they can trade games but don’t realise it’s not good for developers, publishers because they get zero money from traded games, which stops the other console users from actually buy an original copy.
duh.but still the dont trade it in ang get a AAA title for $30 now do they.they mite get $10 or $20 for it.and it can be resold it a physical copy.i dare you to walk in to a gamstop with just a cdkey and see what they do..lol
what does invalid keys mean.stolen keys.if they are getting cdkeys from gmg and SOME of them are invalid then they are stolen.if they got cd keys from publishers ALL they keys would work.common sense use it
Kill yourself bro.
lol troll truth hurts doesnt it.
No, it’s your mannerism and stupidness hurt me most.
do you buy from g2a?
Not this sh*t again….
GreenManGaming also sells games in retail in the UK so they have access to the biggest retail distributors and they buy some of their keys from them (then they strip the keys from the retail boxes in order to sell them digitally). Mainly games from publishers that their digital partnership ended obviously not in the best of ways like Ubisoft, Activision.
They is nothing illegal in that as the law is still vague on the matter. Basically Ubisoft or Activision can’t stop GMG from doing that for the same reason they can’t stop the CD Key stores from doing the same thing because there is no law that prohibits this so they revert to scare tactics with black listing keys in order to scare the customers away.
I need to clarify at this point that I am not suggesting that everything is nice and rosy in the CD Key stores because there are keys from generators or stolen ones being sold there but the majority are cheap retail keys from cheaper regions bought from official local distributors. There is no law prohibiting the latter that is why the big publishers try to shut down the biggest CD Key stores with accusations of tax evasion or tax fraud.
Returning back to GMG it seems they are fighting back using their contacts in the retail distribution market. I see no bad in that as long as they honor their keys and refund or give new keys to customers that have problems with their purchases.
As for Reddit they seem to be a bit overzealous on the matter but all they do is help the big guys do their price fixing and sell new PC games digitally at the outrageous price of 59,99€.
Thank god there is some balance being brought back to the market by the CD Key stores otherwise prices would skyrocket or the discounts on the long run wouldn’t be as steep as they are now.
did you not read the article?this come from the master race site reddit.
GreenManGaming is not authorized to sell Activision or Ubisoft titles, as well as CDProjektRED’s The Witcher 3″
I don’t know the country you live in but in EU nobody can stop you from selling their goods if you have bought them from a legal source. There is no such thing as exclusivity. The so called authorized stores is just a big lie.
In the wholesale world If company A sells to company B and I buy things from company B I have every right to sell them and company A can’t do jack about it.
like i said they have sites set up in different countries to by pass laws.there is a youtube videos on it.pc gamers are just mad now that their secret is out and those sites they buy games from g2a,kingpin,and now gmg are not authorized cdkey rresellers..
pc gamers for years have lived off of those sites.now the truth about them has come out.
You prove to me that they are not legit keys or not authorized cdkey retailers. I have a feeling you will get different answers from both sides, even the retailers. I will stick to my GMG or G2A until developers start making f’ing AAA titles on PC that work. Buy more than half my games from them and gifts for friends, never had a single problem.
Pc gamers? What the f@ck are you? A peasant? Go f yourself
hope you stolen cdkeys work….rolf
You feel so bad being milked by sonya and xbones… that you cant even see it. Lol. You feel so bad that you have to enter on a pc oriented site and put yourself to jokes… lmao. Man… lol
You know what… go and buy the new “pro” controller for 150 bucks… lmao.
You made my day ty man
have fun with g2a,kinguin,and now gmg the master THEIF race.thats why games will ALWAYS be made for consoles first then ported to pc..lol master THEIF race.enjoy your stolen cdkeys.
“I would not be just a nuffin’
My head all full of stuffin’
My heart all full of pain
I would dance and be merry
Life would be a ding-a-derry
If I only had a brain
Says the one who’s rent used games for cheap, giving 0$ to developers.
PC games do not live off stolen keys. The fact that PC games are cheaper on some websites does not mean they are stolen.
“not authorized” does not mean they are stolen. Activision or Ubisoft could just be annoyed that GMG are selling the game cheaper than it is on Uplay, even though the keys were obtained completely legally. Activision and Ubisoft are not saying the keys are stolen, as they cannot say that as there is no evidence.
You are twisting the quote to meet your opinion and not actually understanding what is being said.
“master race site reddit” – What? Just what? Reddit has just as many console subreddits as “master race” subreddits. The problem is not the fact these exist, the problem is the people that parade around shouting about their preferred choice of gaming device. This happens just as much for console owners, and considering you call it “master race site reddit” you probably fall into this category.
yes you guys do.you think you are doing right buy buying cheap cdkeys from sites like g2a,kinguin ,and gmg.you arnt supporting they publishers atall by doing that.unless its multiplayer you mine as well pirate the game and save that $30.
I’d love to hear how they are “damaging” to the PC?
key sellers are not the problem, greedy publishers are. I remember when PC games (and digital versions) where less money then their console counter part, what happened?
That’s because they’re selling them cheaper than they should have to stay afloat. Some of the publishers do not like that. CD Project refused to deal with GMG on legal basis, and when they bought keys through other channels, they attacked them for this. And who is to blame?
Mods on reddit aren’t saint either. Some of them received favors from Battlefront subreddit recently and were removed by admins. Then there were some major problems with Funstock Digital, but for some reason, they’re still allowed to stay on reddit.
yes they do g2a was found dirty so was kinguin this is their last hope and its dirty as well.
I only believe things I saw with my own eyes. I bought keys from them, and all of them were legit so far. Not only that, the store itself is quite reputable amongst PC gamers.
The only things speaking against them are CD Project, who is a competitor (GOG) that obviously wasn’t happy when GMG undercut them, and subreddit mods, who aren’t exactly reputable or clean, and who don’t have any proofs.
GMG is one of the biggest online retailers out there. If they weren’t reputable, they wouldn’t be where they are today.
I’m sorry, but you sound like you don’t even know what you’re talking about, and yet, awfully eager to pick a side.
Of course you could, but that wouldn’t be true, because I never picked up a side:
>It’s hard to decide anything, because we don’t know the whole situation from the inside.
You, on the other hand, are already 100% that they’re fraud, “damaging to PC” and mix stolen keys with legit. I’d say you got awfully far based on someone else’s accusations without any proof.
they are making devs cater to console so they can make money. if you buy a AAA title from g2a, for $20 at launch the dev’s get nonthing. so there for thats why you have seen these always online games now come out, diablo 3 on pc is always online while on console isnt.
its making dev’s make games in 2 ways to make money always online and microtransactions and consoles.
I’ve bought several games from them and never had an issue. Love me some GMG.
I will never get the logic of these discounted key’s. If you can’t afford the game don’t buy it, the price goes down.
But we shouldn’t Pirate the game while waiting for 6-12 months to pass either, right?
#Logic.
They sell keys at cut prices because they have less overhead than the official vendors, why can’t you understand that basic thing, it’s called competition.
this is REDDIT saying this no me.
GreenManGaming is not authorized to sell Activision or Ubisoft titles, as well as CDProjektRED’s The Witcher 3
Reddit claims it but do Activision, Ubisoft and CDPR actually say that?
if its on the internet is gotta be true! right?!
Their keys could be outright illegal but it wouldn’t stop people from buying from them in mass. The sad truth is gamers really don’t give a crap if it hurts the developers as long as they get their game for as cheap and conveniently as possible.
la la la la – who gives a toss. Buy actual games from real sources instead of being a’bunch o’cheap scallywags. yarrrr!
I love it. You’re all tired, hungry angry babies because they took your bottle, but please.. cry yourself to sleep. 🙂
If you overprice your game people will just pirate it. Also, you seem to imply that publishers lose revenue due to these keys. If that were the case you’d see a publisher suing them, not some subreddit moderators complaining. Frankly, the mods might be paid off by other “game key” sites. Ian Miles Cheong used to sell everything on his subreddit (and never faced repercussions btw), corruption runs rampant among reddit mods.
f’ reddit
and not a single f (_) C < was given
What? 2nd Class? Sure, maybe half a decade ago. These days we barely classify as 3rd Class any more.
You forget the Publisher’s idiotic mentality, born out of ignorance & “fingers in ears” ideology; If it doesn’t sell on PC, then we don’t port the next one, & if it does, then it means we’re doing something right.”
This has nothing to do with Piracy, Second-Hand Sales, or the Grey Market, it has everything to do with getting the highest return for the lowest investment, which became key almost a decade ago now, when they first discovered the formula of “Lowest Common Denominator” ergo; Program for the Xbox, then Port it over to the PlayStation, & eventually get someone to do some “High-Res Texture Pack” for the PC.
Beyond that, they don’t give two sh*ts, & they think we don’t either. Case in point; Batman: Arkham Knight. Some pathetic worm actually thought they could get away with launching that miserable piece of filth, so they went ahead & tried, all while ALSO expecting us to pay $40 for the Season Pass, because – why not? To this day, we have received neither an actual apology, nor any kind of actual compensation, not even a ridiculously bad DLC Skin Pack. Actually, they’re not even going to bother programming proper SLi/CrossFire support into it any more (surprise!).