Cloud Imperium has released a new video, showcasing Star Citizen’s new atmospheric flight system. As the team noted, ships that look like they can take advantage of it will handle better than those that don’t. In other words, more aerodynamic ships maneuver better because of how the handle drag, and they can roll and pitch better in atmosphere than in space. This feature certainly sounds cool, so be sure to watch the video after the jump!
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Interesting, so when’s this crap ready?
when they are ready modeling the universe. it takes a handful of moments.
and a lot of our millions.
It all sounds cool but still the flight physics/mechanics are terrible at the moment. You just have to play the game to notice how bad it is. Collisions and how the ship moves suddenly with the input without any sense of acceleration and such.
Yet I’m giving them the “this is pre-alpha” stuff…so I will wait till they polish the game in this area, because in a game of this scope physics (at least for me) are 90% of the game and it could totally ruin the experience. (now for me is almost unplayable, you can do things yeah but it all feels wrong)
I don’t like to play in a buggy mess of a universe. (it’s pre-alpha, I know…I know)
Sadly everyone just see the good things or the promise of the game (I also see that)…but when it comes to talk about the negative things everyone just shut up.
2 years using the very same broken/unfinished physics model. Hope they do something for space flight too…but soon…not in 2 more years.
” the flight physics/mechanics are terrible at the moment. You just have
to play the game to notice how bad it is. Collisions and how the ship
moves suddenly with the input without any sense of acceleration and
such.”
I agree! When I played it I felt like everything was made of rubber. When I pointed this out, everyone disagreed, though :(.
Well yeah but ships feel more like “turrets”. They respond and behave like always depending in the “x, y, z” axis parting from the center of the ship…While this may work (in arcade games most of the time)…it doesn’t make any sense having in mind the mass of each ship and where the engines and thrusters are located.
And aside from that, add that in space you have A LOT of inertia, no matter how futuristic a system or ship could be, laws of physics still apply in every circumstances.
And don’t make me talk about the “space brake”…that…oh dear.
Elite Dangerous can be boring and all, but the physics at least make sense with each ship and have in mind where the thrusters are located and how the engines derive the power and the mass + inertia. It just feels right, like a sim.
I would love to have more pitch and jaw control or more velocity though.
Hope they sort this out and get in a proper “simulation” level. The rest of the game is great and is shaping to be amazing…but the physics, man…
Didn’t the devs say that the flight model was/would be physically accurate?
They did…but in my opinion as of now…they have a lot of work to do.
Yeah, mass and inertia are the main issue, and the most noticeable thing but there are other issues tied to how inertia works overall, and the input while doing maneuvers (the reaction of the engines/thrusters which is not progressive at all as it should, acceleration and the opposite).
There is no drag in space, but the magnitude of thing because of the vast distances you have to travel should make a big difference when it comes to fly in space and in a planet with atmosphere for example.
Let’s see what they can do. 😉
The game uses proper Newtonian physics.
“the reaction of the engines/thrusters which is not progressive at all as it should, acceleration and the opposite”
Thrusters do ramp up. Thruster ramp up is an exponentially limited cosine. The flight computer’s reaction control system is looking for a critically damped point between overdamped where you overshoot and wobble after a maneuver as you settle and under damped where it takes too long to bring your nose on target. The flight computer’s reaction control system is aiming for no more than 2% overshoot with damping thrust before it settles. Originally the system was overdamped as the physics programmer thought the wobble felt better as you could get into position faster and the wobble showed that there was infact inertia. This was shut down quick as people complained about the overshoot and wobble as the ship settled.
The systems for larger ships are not in. Those will have optimal motion profiles using third order motion. Second order motion assumes instant full thrust and do not work with the thruster ramp up. That is change in velocity would be instant as the velocity curve is linear for second order motion and thus the position curve is quadratic. This would lead to the stiff motion you see in most space games. Oddly this is what you are complainning about.
It’s the flight computer that uses second order motion. That is it doesn’t understand the thruster ramp up. It always asks for 100% thrust and sees the ramp up as a delay. Thus it can’t handle larger ships correctly. Thruster ramp up in a third order motion system is “jerk”. That is Jerk is the acceleration of the acceleration. Once a third order motion system is in the flight computer it can limit thrusters to prevent jerk. Such limiting systems are on elevators to limit G-forces for example(Jerk=2m/s^3).
This system will make ships feel very different. Civilian ship will have a lower jerk rating than military ships. Larger ships will feel larger as there will be a slower ramp up as the the flight computer will be limiting them.
Currently the max combat speed is the max speed to maneuver within a combat envelope. They will thus maneuver similarly.
The goal is to have ships feel different and the current flight computer only does balls to the wall.
After the flight computer uses 3rd order motion the g-force simulation will be improved to 3rd order like in real life. That is that rapid onset of a high g-force can cause an instant onset of loss of consciousness without preceding visual symptoms.
Additionally third order motion will be needed for cargo. If a ship is loaded with 100 times its nul mass and can still maneuver, how does it drop its cargo and not maneuver like a 350r? Well they will use a jerk rating in the optimal motion profiles to prevent that. The system is also heavily linked into AI and autopilot functions as optimal pathing will need 3rd order.
Kerbal space program rection control system can’t even damp at all. I highly doubt rogue squadron has a system anywhere close to Star Citizen.
FYI: My information of Star Citizen’s physics system comes from the physics programer.
Sorry but Elite Dangerous has almost nothing to do with a flight model of a spaceship.
Elite has a hybrid flight model between airplane and spaceship.
Star Citizen simulates almost accurate a spaceship flight model, because the flight model of a spaceship in the reality is like a helicopter and a helicopter is almost a turret.
An helicopter is always under gravity forces and you can’t compare it at all with a flight model in zero gravity.
An Helicopter has one rotor in the center which pulls you up and down through the “z axis” always against the force of the gravity (it can also make you move back and forward -call it “y”- and left & right -call it “x”- by changing the angle of “z” alone), and then the tail rotor which makes you move in 360º over the same axis “z”.
A spaceship has multiple engines that pulls the ship from different locations so the movement won’t be equal to an helicopter. Also while in zero gravity mass and inertia are quite important when it comes to motion overall.
There is a lot of “displacement” to make actual maneuvers, you need a lot of space (distances) basically.
Of course they can’t go for full realism in a game (it will be quite boring to be honest in a game like this)…also this is all based on SciFi after all.
I’m talking about how it feels, which is a different thing. How the ship handles and feels in space is still not right.
There is a game called Rogue System which uses a proper “realistic” Newtonian physics model, and there is nothing like it when it comes to actual simulation of space travel in a ship.
Go check it out on You Tube. 😉
I think you dont know what i mean.
I mean the flight behaviour of a spaceship is like a helicopter, the difference is just that a spaceship uses other techniques for the same flight behaviour.
I know what you meant, it is similar but not exactly the same principle.
You are talking about the motion itself (how a space ship “looks” while flying) compared to an helicopter, yet is not the same because of other factors mentioned in my other comment.
But in that case a spaceship has more to with with a VTOL systems, multiple engines combined to go up/down and move forward.
Some examples of VTOL could be drones (quadcopters with multiple engines, in this case 4), the Harrier which is a jet-plane but with the ability to take off or land vertically, V-22’s with its dual tilt rotors, and some others.
Don’t get confused with how they all can do basically “the same” thing compared to the systems and how they actually operate.
Those can be similar but space ships are more complex, and operate in a different way than any of those systems (helicopters, VTOL’s, etc).
Max combat speed is related to the ability to still maneuver without too much inertia from your velocity. You can boost beyond this speed. There are other flight modes like cruse.
Games like Elite are completely unrealistic. Star Citizen is a full on space simulation. I guess you are so used to unrealistic games that realistic simulations seem unrealistic to you.
Oh dear…I’ll better don’t waste more time with this conversation.
But thank you for the laugh dude. Have a nice day. 😉
If I understand the process okay, this is the milestone. It is not the finished product. Milestone is getting it working, then you tweak it. The fact that there is resistance now, due to aerodynamics, is the portion to cheer. However now they’ll have to tweak it to make it more fluid like.
Honestly, i just think you don’t really know how to fly… It also depends on the ship I guess. I have absolutely no problems flying my Sabre, but that ship is meant to fly like a dream though, so maybe the other ships are a bit more clunky. I however find no problems.
“I just think you don’t really know how to fly” Oh come on you can’t come up with that man. I play racing simulators for ages with proper cockpit, wheel combo, flight simulators as FSX, IL2 with proper joystick setup as well and many more games made with proper physics depending in what you are doing (on of my favourites Spintires when it comes to physics alone).
It has nothing but nothing to do if you can fly your ship or not with or without problems.
There are physics involved when it comes to a proper simulation, actions and reactions to your actual inputs with things in the environment and the environment alone. Your ship sure can “fly” in a void, but are you sure that it behaves like it really should having in mind all the variants caused by the physics+input by the player combo?
I bet that you actually don’t care about that, and that’s why you think it is “right” with your ship.
And the “clunky” thing is nothing more than the physics being broken…and that is for all ships in the game…not just the one you fly.
Physics affect everything in the world…have that in mind, not just your or my ship.
I bet if they revamp the physics you’ll notice it a lot. (I bet they will)
Also if you play a simulator with a keyboard and mouse, or a controller…you are not going to “feel” the thing as it was intended. Many people do that mistake.
Is not the same to just “see the ship moving”, is how you “feel it”. 😉
There is no frame of reference for acceleration in space other than your instruments. Looking at those you will see that you are in fact sliding. Originally there was overshoot on maneuvers but people complained. The flight computer now applies counter thrust to prevent over shooting with a damping force. The fight mechanics are 100% physics simulation down to each thruster. It’s not half assed like other space games. It’s simulated like Kerbal Space program, but with a fly by wire flight computer.
I agree, too! The physics feel like I am flying a ship made out of paper with almost no mass. I really dig the FPS stuff, but the flying is awful. ED has a better physics/flight model stuff that makes the ships feel as if they have mass.
I fee like this game is going to be very complicated to play. Keyboard and mouse isn’t very good for a flight game like that.
o rly?
It supports proper flight sticks, you just need to tune and set them up to your liking, it’s no arcade game but didn’t take me long to adjust to the controls.
Have you tried with a Hotas ?
Not but Bored Gamer has /watch?v=Hl1uJ8TtSiU
The game lets gimbals chase the mouse so you do get an advantage with mouse as you are limited in your flight control. Mouse is more noob friendly.
Dual sticks is actually best due to proper 6 degrees of motion. T.16000m is the most affordable “good stick”(Hall Effect magnetic sensors) and can be made left handed. I use 2 of them.
The idea is to have a VR headset linked to gimbals, so you can shoot what you look at. VR isn’t in yet so you use fixed weapons with sticks gaining +1 size to the weapon. The goal is to maneuver in such a way as to make their pips predictions of where you will be, wrong. They shoot empty space. There are maneuvers that will let you shoot them while still confusing their pip.
Skidded Attack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbbPo1jowpo
Skidded Roll
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt9njiLu5S8
If you want to get Star Citizen.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/enlist?referral=STAR-M9YD-MZ9S
Includes extra 5,000 credits. You can wait for the next free fly week or get a package.
The single player has been made separate, but there are 2 packages that have both. The single player standalone only has squadron 42 and no star citizen. All other packages have star citizen but no squadring 42.
Choice is Aurora MR or Mustang Alpha + Squadron 42
Mustang doesn’t carry cargo(fighter only) but it’s worth more. I thus recommend the Mustang Alpha. I first upgraded to an Aurora LN and liked it quite a bit. I’d say it’s the best all around ship for an extra $5 upgrade before the avenger that adds $30 to upgrade. Slow but has good weapons. I won matches with both against expensive ships. The LN hits harder and takes more hits.
Mustang Alpha combo package here
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Packages/Mustang-Alpha-Star-Citizen-Squadron-42-Combo
You can also rent ships with credits you earn in game or fly with other people on their ships.
Pfft, obviously vaporware.
Clearly no one at Cloud Imperium Games are working on the game…
so true!
Where is the game? A boring hanger, social module and empty space station is all what i see on my screen
You should open your eyes than.
Maybe I need to open my wallet a bit more ….
So much more that you mortgage your house, and that of your parents.
Maybe I´ll do, when the game is released, in 2025.
https://media.giphy.com/media/9SxA84kWRbnsA/giphy.gif
this game STILL isnt out?….lol….suckers