Now here is an interesting story. Ashes of the Singularity’s Early Access phase has just been launched and Stardock has been promoting its title as the first game supporting Microsoft’s API. This, however, was something that caught Dylan Browne’s attention – developer of Caffeine – who was also claiming that Caffeine was the first DX12 game to date.
In a somehow “calm-before-the-storm” tweet war, Brad Wardell and Dylan Browne discussed which game was actually the first one that took advantage of Microsoft’s new API.
When a fan brought together Brad and Dylan, Brad claimed that Ashes of the Singularity was the first game to support DX12 as it has been available for download since last May.
https://twitter.com/draginol/status/657358548029087744
https://twitter.com/draginol/status/657358949520416768
Brad Wardell then added that Stardock has developed its own engine, and that Ashes of the Singularity is a proper DX12 instead of a game merely supporting this new API.
https://twitter.com/draginol/status/657363498264109056
https://twitter.com/draginol/status/657364320117006336
https://twitter.com/draginol/status/657367262580617216
On the other hand, Dylan claimed that “developing your own engine does not automatically make you more mighty then everyone” and questioned whether checking a “checkbox to make a game DX12 it makes my game somehow invalid.”
https://twitter.com/DylserX/status/657365054627581952
https://twitter.com/DylserX/status/657369664012570624
Truth be told, Brad Wardell has a point here. Instead of simply enabling the DX12 path in an engine (in which case that path is not even optimized due to its implementation) Stardock has created a “proper” DX12 game that takes advantage of this API.
Brad Wardell concluded that Ashes of the Singularity is the first DX12 game (although it has not been released yet) and Dylan Browne concluded that Caffeine is the first released DX12 game.
https://twitter.com/draginol/status/657367474388783104
https://twitter.com/DylserX/status/657379526805213184
Caffeine’s first episode is now available on Steam, while Ashes of the Singularity’s early access phase has just been launched!
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
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What the f’ is this petty sh*t?
oh science
AOTS was the first game to use DX12 so it wins. Caffeine was 2nd regardless of what the release status of these games are.
That “game” (or better said corridor simulator with no soul) was first made in Unreal Engine 3 which then was ported to Unreal Engine 4, and then they got the DX12 features into the engine itself.
The other was developed from the core itself and it clearly shows off what DX12 can do.
End of discussion. 😉
pffff.they are acting like kids, it really does not matter.
Like the title of 1st dx12 game will give them better sales, or make it a better game, Lame
Skynet: I was the first sentient AI! That HAL thing? lol.
LooooL :D, No Dave, I was first
Oooops… *leaves room VERY quietly and slowly*
but not fast enough to avoid detection …
Where are you going Dave?……*ejects him to space*
I am first sentient AI ! , But HAL9000 is true Evil AI !
If the game hasn’t been released it is not the first, otherwise you could argue that the people developing DX12 created the first game whilst they were testing DX12, which obviously wouldn’t be the case.
It would be like saying you are the first person on the moon, because you built a spacecraft that could fly there before someone else, even though someone else is already standing on it.
Except this isn’t a question of release date; it’s a question of who’s properly implemented it, & who hasn’t.
One guy clicked a checkbox Post-Development Completion, & “added” DX12 to his Game.
The other guy was actively coding DX12 into the Game DURING Development.
No argument.
Ok, MS did with Fable Legends, end of story. There is nothing to discuss anymore.
It was tested and launched with that button working. If you want to say that games being developed first and not launched yet that use DX12 then Final Fantasy 15 wins.
The point is, if someone is standing on the finish line and the other person is developing stuff to get them to that finish line, then they aren’t first. Can you imagine a marathon
Team A: oh I am developing new shoes that will help me run faster..
Race Official: umm, someone is already standing on the finishing line wearing shoes that have that.
Team A: It doesn’t count because we are making sure the shoes are comfy.
Race Official: The person standing on the other side of the finishing line has already tested that and finished.
Team A: wahhh. *stamps feet* we are still first.
Ok, here’s a real comparison;
Crysis 2, received DX11 Post-Launch, in a Patch, compared to having been actively Developed WITH DX11, throughout the Development Process, thus making DX11 part of the Core, instead of just a Patch-on job.
Same thing here, & that’s the difference; Ashes has been actively working with Microsoft for the past year in order to code the full DX12 Suite into its Base Engine & Game, whereas Caffeine piggybacked onto Epic Games’ work on Unreal 4, & did a Patch-Job by comparison, no matter how much time they spent on it, because without a lot of work delving deep into the Base, Core Coding (which would take a substantial amount of work & simply wouldn’t be worth it, period), it’s a Patch-on, period.
oh I didn’t realise that games now can’t be called DirectX12 games if they use the feature to make them so? is that what you are saying? that any game that uses that feature is not a DirectX 12 game? you might want to mention that to Microsoft.
What? Are you mental?
I said, specifically detailing, the difference between a DX Patch Job, & a Native DX Adoption. I specifically detailed Caffeine’s long, tedious process in order to get access to a DX12-capable Release of Unreal 4, & I mentioned how, as the Ashes Devs themselves have said, they were working directly with Microsoft to implement DX12 into the Base Engine & Game Coding, hence Native Support vs. Patched.
I specifically outlined the differences between the two approaches, I never said either Game isn’t a DX12 Game. That doesn’t automatically mean both Games have full-DX12 Capability, but that’s a separate thing;
Most DX11-capable Games for example, usually only took advantage of part of the DX11 API. Did that exclude them from claiming DX11 Support? No. Actually, even Base-level DX11 Support, Patched or Native, is useful to have in a Game, regardless of if you’re using Tessellation, etc. or not. The same argument applies here, however, to DX12. There’s a considerably higher chance that Unreal 4’s EXPERIMENTAL DX12 Support is still only partial, whereas Ashes’ Partnership to Microsoft most likely ensures Full-DX12 API Compatibility. It doesn’t mean neither are “not” DX12 Games, it just means one has “more” DX12 Compatibility than the other (if it is the case).
Take EVE vs. BF4 for example; EVE Online has basic DX11 Programming (no Graphical Features, just Baseline Support), whereas Battlefield 4 & Frostbite 3 have full DX11 API Integration, meaning it’s up to the Developers how many of its Features they want to use. It’s most likely a similar case with Unreal 4, since they’re still working on their DX12 API Integration into Unreal 4, whereas it seems Ashes is farther down the line, Development-wise in regards to DX12 Integration/Support.
That’s a separate thing from Patched vs. Native Support though, although they are intertwined, to an extent.
Cool story brah.
I liked the part where you said Caffeine is a DirectX12 game. It was launched first too, making it the first DirectX12 game.
You trying to argue anything else just makes you look bad.
Again with this….. Yeah, I give up, you clearly fail to, or just don’t want to understand, nothing of what I’ve written & tried to explain in detail, ergo the only logical conclusion to reach at this point in time is simple;
You’re ridiculous, this is pointless.
Goodbye, I hope you enjoy living in blissful ignorance.
P.S. If you ever choose to seek enlightenment, try arguing with the unassailable comments written below by FasterThanFTL & Foxiol. Though I’m sure you’ll find some trollable bullsh*t to write them off with too.
Ok lets get to the nitty gritty.
Firstly I’m not associated with either company that creates either of these games. I’m just an outsider saying what it is, and caffeine is the first DirectX12 game.
I’m a webGL developer, everything I do I do from scratch in sublime text editor. Now if I was creating something and someone else was using Unity to develop the same thing and they used the export to webGL button in Unity and had it launched and ready before I did, I would say they did it first. There is no question about it.
Now regarding the partnering with Microsoft part, this is actually quite funny as I used to work for the partnership division within Microsoft. I’ve just done a search within the partnership database (which anyone can do) for Oxide Games (their business name) and you know what? the name doesn’t appear within the database. So if they are going around saying they partnered with Microsoft to develop the game, they can actually get into a LOT of sh*t for that.
.. oh and from their FAQ:
If you have been trying to run the game on DirectX 12 and it continues to crash, try running in on DirectX 11. DirectX 12 is still a work in progress and the build for DirectX 11 is currently much stabler.
Brad Wardell is a di*k.
No he isn’t. The only d*ck I see here is you.
I see. Even if he was mass murderer, it would be ok, because “His company has been focused on the PC platform more than a lot of developers since its beginning.” and thats only thing that matter. You are di*k. Simpleminded di*k.
So you’re saying Brad Wardell might be a mass murderer? Because that’s the vibe I got from you. Please quit being retarded… I was having enough trouble taking you seriously to begin with.
Please dont never again react on me. Your level of stupidity is beyond my comprehension. Thank you.
“Don’t never”. Double negative, ouch. Anyway, if you post stupid comments insulting people without any context again, I jolly well will. You’re welcome.
Ouch. That double negative was prety stupid, i give you that.
Well i guess we will meat again.
Yes, I look forward to such a “meating”.
Hahaha! I’m beginning to think he’s a troll that intentionally misspells words and goofs up his grammar.
Since it’s beginning? Wow, that is impressive, that 2 year is really impressive. One tech demo for Mantle, and.. well this thing.
Heard of Galactic Civilizations, Sins of a Solar Empire, Demigod etc? And btw “it” refers to the company.
Stop being dense… Stardock’s In-house development studio has made the GalCiv series. That’s it. That is their only achievement. The made the political machine and elemental war of magic as well.. which are two completely sh*t games. So no wonder you exchanged them with two other developers games on your list.
I’m sure Ironclad Games and Gas Powered Games would be really happy if you actually knew who made their games, instead of who published their games. But I guess you think EA created Battlefield and not Dice, right?
StarDock is pretty much junk, and let’s face it, so will Oxide be. Their new developer, making Ashes and StarSwarm…. such list of achievements!
Meanwhile in a sandpit somewhere in the world: One kid to another; My daddy is stronger than your daddy!
Exactly!! …“My dong is bigger than yours syndrome”
What if I showed you my dong to prove it was bigger!!! lol
What is the sodding point?
«developing your own engine does not automatically make you more mighty then everyone… Just saying» What does it than!?!?
CoolingGibbon is a d**k.
Cool story bro.
ashes is just a tech demo, who cares? not a game.
Sorry but you are wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhlLf1NKYP4
At least this is not a walking in a corridor simulator.
No, it isn’t.
Did you mean Caffeine?
Like supreme commander? Sins of a solar empire? Yeah, its more than just a tech demo. It does have a benchmark though.
Lol,,, saw this coming from a mile away. But I expected fans to argue over this, not devs.
Its always funny to see the mighty fighting between each other. 🙂 Us poor people can relax and move on more important things like.. Assassins Creed :S 🙂
What games are we talking about?
The guy that is behind “Caffeine” is using Unreal Engine 4 which added support for DX12 a while back…so basically he did nothing to “add it” to the game. He first made the game in Unreal Engine 3 (performed like cr*p) and then ported it to UE4…wow such an incredible work.
The other guys developed an entire engine based in Mantle and DX12, and made a game that fully supports it, and have in mind as they stated you could get the game in its early stages back in May from their web site. (it was like 85€ or something like that though)
That guy (behind Caffeine) thinks he is the god of games because his corridors look shiny, you can tell that, go to his You Tube channel where he basically posted “updated” videos showing the same thing on and on.
And then he has the balls to put “(that is not in Alpha state)” when he basically released an unfinished product calling it “Episode 1” (to make some quick cash) pure made of corridors with shiny textures and basically 99% absent of actual game-play value.
This guy just wanted some attention, no doubt of it…he got it.
“he clicks a checkbox and thinks he’s made a DX 12 game.” started laughing after that
Is AOTS any good? How would it compare to Supreme Commander (first one, didn’t cdare much for the 2nd) and/or planetary annihilation?
Came back to answer my own question. I purchased it EA. Its buggy, the graphics aren’t entirely in place (by the devs own admission) and I have a pretty good time with it. I run a system that is far below specs. The bugs aren’t necessarily game breaking and the gameplay is thus far solid. It borrows some ideas from Sins of the Solar Empire (HUD) yet has some, if not most, of the best aspects of Supreme Commander. If you don’t know what stage of development they’re in, FYI its very very early. They just added yesterday the ability to double click a unit to select all units of the same time that reside on screen kind of early. I wouldn’t recommend it if you need the game to be at max, however if you wish to get an early start in learning the game and/or want to participate in the bug hunt or molding the gameplay, or hell even if you just want to throw some money at them for development (they do say they’re fully funded to completion, using EA primarily as a means for molding gameplay) I’d say give it a shot.
So far biggest complaint I saw in forums is theres no tires in this game thus far (every unit hovers) that leave tracks behind. Boohooo.
Brad Wardell is right.
About what?
This is hilarious and the end just made me lol. Twitter battles dont get anymore epic than this folks! Bring some popcorn :O
Wait, so let me get this straight… you’re saying just because Stardock didn’t “develop” Sins of a ”
”
Solar Empire and Demigod and merely published them, somehow that magically diminishes their contribution? Who do you think footed the development bills? Surely it wasn’t you. Therefore I suggest YOU stop being dense when no have no clue about video game design.
“So no wonder you exchanged them with two other developers games on your list.”
Where did I mention Stardock “developed” those games? Please show me.
” which are two completely sh*t games.”
Which has nothing to do with their support of the PC platform. I brought up those examples to show how Stardock was involved with PC gaming. Just because “you” find their games “sh*t” is irrelevant.
“But I guess you think EA created Battlefield and not Dice, right?
Wrong.
“StarDock is pretty much junk, and let’s face it, so will Oxide be. Their new developer, making Ashes and StarSwarm…. such list of achievements!”
Ah yes, your opinion matter. And all that jazz.
I don’t care who footed the development build, or put in marketing money. I care about who developed the game. I’m not going to look at any EA or Ubisoft games, and say: Good work on that game Ubisoft! Not happening.
You answered my question on their achievement…. I’m only going to assume you answered by question… since you.. well answered to me…
I don’t find those two games shit, they are objectively pretty bad. More like terrible.
Ubisoft is very involved in PC gaming as well, so is EA, so is Activision, so is Microsoft. It’s not a difficult thing. It’s a very open platform after all. The innovations on PC is made my Intel, AMD, and Nvidia, not Bard “lots of talk” Wardell. EA and Dice have actually done more then Mr.Wardell.
Wardell talk a lot, achieve little, which is no achievement at all.
Do you see how I ask you while I guess? I guess you do not, right?
Ah, yes, like every opinion, it don’t actually matter, in general.
“I don’t care who footed the development build, or put in marketing money. I care about who developed the game.
— In that case you should care enough not to comment on a company’s contributions outside “development”.
“You answered my question on their achievement…. I’m only going to assume you answered by question… since you.. well answered to me”
— That doesn’t answer my question. And which other “question” are you specifically referring to here? I have come across no such questions regarding Stardock’s involvement specifically with development. I expect two separate answers for each of these.
“I’m not going to look at any EA or Ubisoft games, and say: Good work on that game Ubisoft! Not happening.”
— That’s your choice.
“The innovations on PC is made my Intel, AMD, and Nvidia, not Bard “lots of talk” Wardell. EA and Dice have actually done more then Mr.Wardell.”
— By innovations you mean “hardware” innovations? If that’s the case, then you are correct. Stardock is in the software industry, so I don’t see how you’re making that comparison. And EA and DICE have done what they have done for multiple platforms, not just PC, simply because they are major players with a major budget.
“I don’t find those two games sh*t, they are objectively pretty bad”
— Oh please do tell me how a creative medium like a game is “objectively” bad. Rather bring in some kind of scientific findings regarding the matter since, you know, we’re being objective about it.
“Wardell talk a lot, achieve little, which is no achievement at all.”
— Which metric are you judging his achievements against? Billion dollar corporations or mid-sized businesses? Please elaborate.
“Do you see how I ask you while I guess? I guess you do not, right?”
— You’re right, I don’t. A re-examination of your prior response turned up only one “question” from your end, but it was more of a failed sarcasm attempt than anything else. However, I also answered that question by the way.
“Ah, yes, like every opinion, it don’t actually matter, in general.”
— Correct, and you should have left your opinions out of this discussion if you were interested in pursuing facts.