In an interview with 4Gamer, AMD’s Senior Vice President of Engineering for Radeon Technologies Group, David Wang, revealed that the red team will not implement DirectX ray tracing until all of its GPUs are capable of supporting it.
This basically means that, unlike NVIDIA, AMD will support DXR when this tech has been established and when more developers will be using it. Moreover, and again contrary to NVIDIA, AMD will add support for it in all of its generational models; from low-end to high-end.
As David Wang told 4Gamer:
“For the time being, AMD will definitely respond to Direct Raytracing, for the moment we will focus on promoting the speed-up of offline CG production environments centered on AMD’s Radeon ProRender, which is offered free of charge ….. utilization of ray tracing games will not proceed unless we can offer ray tracing in all product ranges from low end to high end.”
As such, NVIDIA will be the only company right now that will offer support for real-time ray tracing. For what it’s worth, there aren’t any games right now that support DXR and Battlefield 5 will not support it at launch. So yeah, it will be interesting to see whether the adoption of DXR will be better than the one for DX12, and whether this new tech will flop or not.
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
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Read this news before as well.
All of this indeed makes sense from AMD’s perspective. Currently they can focus on Radeon ProRender’s support for offline CG production.
I don’t see this ray tracing technology to become mainstream anytime soon, at least not on AMD’s hardware (for Games that is). After all, a lot of R&D is required to develop DXR- compatible Hardware, including the cost involved.
FYI. Most importantly, I think MS’s DXR requires a certain “Hardware feature level” as well, which I presume should be 12_1 feature level. If I’m not wrong, AMD GPUs are still on 12_0.
Nvidia’s PASCAL and Turing cards have support for this feature level, with TURING having probably a even higher version of this feature, IMO. Call it 13_0, or rather 12_2 ?
So I’m wondering whether only 12_2 hardware feature level would mostly be required to support DXR, or we can also run it on 12_1 as well, but NOT without having dedicated TENSOR cores though (on 12_1) ?
But this seems a bit doubtful from a performance perspective. My bet is still on 12_2 though.
Which means there might be a HIGH performance cost, if we implement DXR on anything lower than 12_2/13_0, which is where AMD’s NAVI GPU also comes into picture.
Because, the upcoming mainstream consumer 7nm NAVI GPU would be barely sufficient for DXR, based on the requirements (unless they put in RT cores, which I doubt).
And as per rumors, even the upcoming “PS5” will not have support for DXR as well. We can expect AMD’s “Next-Gen” architecture to have proper support for the above Hardware feature level though, i.e. 12_2, most probably on the high-end NAVI 20 GPU and beyond.
From a “Financial” standpoint it makes sense for AMD to follow this roadmap, and not just rush out to implement DirectX RayTracing in games.
But without any DXR-capable hardware (dedicated RT cores), it makes little sense to invest in this feature. Will AMD really manage to fit in “ray-tracing cores” on their upcoming Navi GPUs ? If not, then this DXR might come with a big performance cost though, if implemented in any application.
By the way, what Wang has just said seems to be his own “personal viewpoint”, and this cannot be considered as an “official” statement from AMD.
.
-Nope, Vega is 12_1
-There were hardware RT accelerator long before nVidia`s RTX, so tech its all ready there. Question is if Games really need THIS particular path tracing technique.
-There`re already techniques and games with RT running smootly without hardware support.
Yeah. I know that. I just made the correction, by editing my post before.
As expected. Now this gives NVIDIA more of an advantage to dominate the GPU/gaming market once again, as usual. lol.
GL with 1080p 30fps gaming on 1,3K$ cards which tent to die in a couple of months of usage)) nvidia corp know how to “dominate” the market
Yes they know it. And it has been that way for more than a decade. And the 2080ti dying are not really that worse than what happen to AMD 5k series GSOD that happen back in 2009 that affecting almost all 5k series from top to bottom.
lol! my 5970 and 6950 still works ))
5970 seems fine though since they came out much later. I know i guy that had to RMA his 5870 four times because of the GSOD issue. On his fourth replacement ASUS actually give him 5970 instead of another 5870. It worked fine though back then AMD support for CF was spotty to which he end up selling that 5970 for a single GTX580 after a few months. The 6K series have much less issue with GSOD but people often reporting about the mouse corruption issue when they set the GPU for eyefinity use in which AMD fix in 7k series by changing the way they implement eyefinity.
it seems you hadnt to deal with gtx2xx/4xx and 5xx series with tooth paste under IHS ))
Is that even an issue?
lol) ofc it was! just try find any of them in a working state )) or at least check out about the nvidia bumpgate issues 2006-2012 across OEM vendors such as DELL/HP/APPLE
we are not talking about that melting laptop. what issue does the GTX 200 series through GTX500 series have with those heat spreader? i used to own GTX460 myself and that card still working even now. the only issue i remember with GTX460 was some of the early model have it’s VRM getting burned since there is no heatsink or thermal pad to cool down the VRM section even for custom model from AIB. but i never saw forum post talking how those heat spreader becoming an issue. even when fully loaded the temperature never reach 70c for my GTX460. the GSOD that happening with AMD is different. they insist it is software issue they said driver update will fix it despite having so many those 5k series being RMA.
5K radeons cost fragments of what 2K geforce does today
DXR is not and will not be part of DX12 feature level, it is feature staying aside of DX12.
“as per rumors, even the upcoming “PS5″ will not have support for DXR as well”
Isn’t DXR locked to Microsoft’s DirectX APIs? I mean why would PS5 use proprietary raytracing OS/software when it has AMD’s open and Vulkan supported realtime raytracing solutions?
Yes, DXR is locked to MS’s API, but I was actually talking about dedicated “hardware” support for DXR in the upcoming PS5, and other consoles.
Like I said before, it’s a rumor, and I think AMD would need to develop an entire set of custom hardware and software just like Nvidia, if PS5 actually has to support raytracing.
Not fully sure though.
DXR is going to naturally make it’s way to consoles, but I don’t know if it will be on the PS5, or the next XboX. More likely it will take longer to come out, primarily because it’s not that cost effective at the moment.
Also, it´s incredibly render time expensive.
IMO, there’s little chance that PS5 will be powerful enough, or have the right hardware (similar to Nvidia’s RT Core in the Turing GPUs) to do meaningful real-time raytracing, unless AMD really surprises us with NAVI, by adding extra custom silicon, and if that gets into the PS5’s GPU ?
I’m just speculating though, and I also expect PS6 to be the first Sony console which might be able to do hybrid raster+raytracing. But when will it arrive ?
I guess many more years to come.
“AMD will definitely respond to DirectX Raytracing” – David Wang
To get to the bottom of this issue, I contacted @KOMANCHI_ENSAKA on Twitter, a native Japanese speaker who frequently posts Radeon-related information leaks and other tech-related content, and asked if we could get an accurate translation of the quotes related to DirectX Raytracing.
Thankfully, Komachi obliged and delivered us an accurate English translation of the text, which reads as follows.
Mr. Wang said that “AMD will definitely respond to DXR,” after preposing that
“This is a personal view”, but
“For the time being, AMD is providing it free of charge”
We will focus on improving the offline CG production environment centered on Radeon ProRender “.
“The spread of Ray-Tracing’s game will not go unless the GPU will be
able to use Ray-Tracing in all ranges from low end to high end,” he
said.
The moral of the story here is that you shouldn’t trust
machine language translations, especially when it involves technical
matters, as small changes can easily result in the spread of incorrect
information.
THX to overclock3d_net
December Update 😉
“The spread of Ray-Tracing’s game will not go unless the GPU will be able to use Ray-Tracing in all ranges from low end to high end,” he said.”
But this itself means that they will not be responding directly for long time, as chances of ray tracing being implemented in low end GPU’s is long way off when you consider a 2080ti struggles to hit 1080p 60fps
Silly and sensible really. Sensible in respect of AMD not really having the resources Nvidia do, who can focus fully on graphics technology. Silly because from now on, Nvidia will be perfecting RTX with each new model of graphics card in the future, until all their models, from low-end to high-end support it, with years of real-world research behind it.
That and Nvidia will hopefully have their high end cards perfected, while AMD will still be playing ye old “focus just on low end” for a few years more, while their high end cards suffer, once again throwing them years behind that market.
LOL.
In other words, once ray tracing is matured and common place in games, they will be way behind Nvidia. As usual I suppose.
Funny huh, i could swear that somone was arguing (Spamming the news) just last week that AMD was going to implement Raytracing in the PS5 that alegedly was also coming out next year.
Omfg i remember that.
It was that “LuckyNumber8” guy.
Sp4ctr0 Spencer was claiming that the current-gen Xbone X, a console so poor that it often struggles with 30fps in its downgraded games, would soon be featuring games with ray tracing!
PS5 (or XBOX next-gen for that matter) in 2019 would be downright insane. It would make no sense at all considering how well PS games and console are selling.
On the raytracing matter…I think it would be very smart for either Sony or M$ to try to bring at least some raytracing capabilities to their next-gen hardware IF and only if a good amount of their devs would be willing to take advantage of it.
If RTX is just another gimmick (and an expensive one at that) to make neon lights prettier than Nvidia, AMD, Sony, M$ or whoever (Intel?) can shove up their A$$
if developer just think RT is just another way to make their game more bling bling than what we have now then yes RT will be just another gimmick. but if they see RT as to improve the way current game being rendered then it is different story. sure it will be more expensive on performance and gamer will not going to get much benefit from it but for game developer it should change the way they work with game engine.
On some off-topic AMD related news:
It seems AMD’s President and CEO Dr. Lisa Su has been bestowed with the Global Semiconductor Alliance/GSA “Highest Honor” award.
“”Dr. Lisa Su to be Awarded Dr. Morris Chang Exemplary Leadership Award”.
Congrats, @LISA. I’m providing the link below, but check the “BusinessWire” website, for the time being.
The selection of Dr. Su is based on her ongoing technological contributions, exceptional business acumen, status as a positive and inspiring role model, and wide ranging respect among the technology industry and business community.
“….. utilization of ray tracing games will not proceed unless we can offer ray tracing in all product ranges from low end to high end.”
translate —> radeon gpu with new ray tracing will appear to the public, when rtx 3060 6gb-8gb or rtx 4050 ti 4gb-6gb has come to all retail store ………… ^^
Meanwhile Nvidia is coocking up the RTX TITAN only for 1999,99$
Maybe that can play games 1080p 60fps RTX ON
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/51b93c5ea1d91a543a5e7b3ef698665929f214c6d313dc782bd0a21ca4ae5b50.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/60a7cdc5d16790d0c1e50b5183fa1867084ea1024d7e843560f76f58c6c30e57.jpg
This one is good though.
Nah, this isn’t that much good. The first MEME which you posted was really funny. A picture showing a family guy, vs a pauper sitting on the street with his dog.
That was very hilarious, and it was the BEST rtx MEME I’ve ever seen.
AMD makes high-end GPUs?
Vega64 has been.
Vega64 competed with GTX1070, but at the time we had 1080, 1080Ti and Titan XP and then Nvidia quickly added 1070Ti to the roster. Hardly a high-end when there are 4 GPUs that are faster in that same generation.
Seems odd since I doubt the low level cards are really gonna have the spare power to even use such a feature.
ofc they will in ~10years so long way to go, unless you own a delorean
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/47d2fb439f746efc28a3fc0ede8faf8eff83711051cbd99030e5d32e66b2701b.gif
October 2018
AMD CEO and president, Lisa Su
“We will be competitive in high-end graphics. We’re making high-performing quality products…”
November 2018
AMD Senior VP, David Wang
“utilization of ray tracing games will not proceed…”
Broken promises. That’s our typical lord, @AMD…But have faith buddy, have faith .:D
The evidence of the past few years would suggest that the ‘M’ in AMD could stand for Mañana. ?
lol.
A= Another.
M= Management.
D= Disaster.
Also “we’ll focus on high end”
“we’ve decided to focus on low end first”
Basically they’ve once again admitted that high end GPU’s will be taking thew looooooooong backseat for another 4-5 years, typical of AMD as per usual.
As much as I see ray tracing as the future of gaming, it’s just that….well, it’s the future.
right now, the demands and price are absurd, so it may as well not be a feature.
I’m actually with AMD here, that focus should be on things that actually are achievable in here and now.
for AMD that will be the case. not for nvidia though. if they want to they can push GTX2080ti much higher than what we got right now. imagine if all the die space in TU102 are dedicated towards traditional rendering performance. but the thing is pushing the performance further in this space will not going to mean much if other hardware component can’t keep up. unless you were using 4k monitors (which is still the minority even among PC gamer) there is no CPU can really keep up with GTX2080ti. since they can’t push traditional performance further they decided to spend that headroom else where.