Square Enix released yesterday two screenshots from the PS4 Pro version of Rise of the Tomb Raider. Now we know that a lot of you will be wondering whether the PS4 Pro version is able to match the PC version running in 4K. Thankfully, NeoGAF’s member ‘Wishmaster92‘ has shared a comparison screenshot between the PC and the PS4 Pro versions.
As we can see, Rise of the Tomb Raider is blurrier on the PS4 Pro, something that was to be expected. Rise of the Tomb Raider does not appear to be running in native 4K on the PS4 Pro, something that could explain this blurriness.
Of course, this does not really surprise us. After all, Mark Cerny himself claimed that PS4 Pro will have to reconstruct scenes from a lower resolution and then upscale them in 4K. While there will be some indie titles that will run in native 4K, most triple-A games won’t be rendered in native 4K resolution on PS4 Pro.
As a result of that, everything looks sharper on the PC version than on the PS4 Pro version.
On the other hand, lighting density has been increased on the PS4 Pro version. This feels more like an artistic choice, though we are pretty sure that some will prefer the PC version, while others the PS4 Pro version.
Enjoy the comparison!
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
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We all knew this was gonna happen. Everyone back to your posts lol
cant wait PC tears lolx.. btw.. PC looks better
Do show me a premade $400 PC (Inc m+b since console also includes a $60 controller for free aswell) that can also have the same results as this ps4 pro footage?
Show me a console that can run 25 year old games, play more than 25,000 games, run thousands of useful apps, use thousands of mods etc. Maybe a $400 PC cannot beat $400 console but a $500-$600 PC easily can and you can do so much more with it.
With that argument, you killed Everybody in the room. Lol.
i dont know man, sony increases ps plus price, without mp you are making that money back also cheaper games.
Nice changing goalposts I see.
Actually none of you could answer it 😉
If you think about it, just a few short years of savings of just online play gets use a free gpu upgrade like the 470, 480 or 1060 and thats not including the savings we get from games being cheaper and selling older hardware to reduce the price of getting the new hardware.
Also, there is nothing stopping the PC doing the same scaling tricks that the PS4 Pro is doing, personally, I’m not interested in 4k until it’s native true 4k and honestly, I think the PS4 Pro would be better doing 1080p 60fps upscaled to 4k, thats what most gamers seem to want.
all games on pc sucks…console have the masterpiece !
Nice argument.
Too bad it sucks.
PC costs more. Who cares. The price argument is pointless because yes we pay more but there’s way more benefits. You pay more, you get more, not a hard concept to understand.
Ok finally atleast a decent answer to my question the others switching goalposts entirely.
You don’t actually pay more. That’s a lie. If you get a phone for 1$ did you really only pay 1$ for the phone? No, you’re paying monthly fees on it. On consoles you pay monthly fees AND you pay extra on every game. On PC you pay once and that’s it. PC is for people who can think ahead, consoles are for lower lifeforms with no concept of time / the future.
I think he meant from a hardware standard, nothing else. You can actually get a PC for the same price of a current gen system and have it run near or exactly 1:1 as them. But it’s pure logic if you want to have things running all maxed up at high resolution and framerates you’ll have to spend much more. But at that price you’ll be given the benefits as you’ve mentioned.
So in the long run console players likely spend as much, if not, even more than us PC gamers in order to get the most out of their limited systems. Didn’t the cost of Playstation Plus rise recently too? Read somewhere briefly that it’s now on par with Xbox One’s service.
Why does it need to be a ‘pre made’ PC though?. In any case a £69 Athlon paired with a £170 rx470 will substantially out perform PS4 Pro. Sure it will cost £170 more than PS4 Pro but it’s more powerful and doesn’t come subsidised with online fees that will add another £360 more to the cost of PS4 Pro.
So to recap… Pros for PC £170 more expensive however is substantially more powerful, has a larger , superior library of games whether that’s all PC titles, superior third party ports, all Microsoft’s exclusives and all those PS4 console exclusives. Superior control scheme including keyboard and mouse for games like Doom or Overwatch. The ability to upgrade your hardware on your own terms.
Pros for PS4 Pro. It’s ‘only’ £350 and has a handful of interesting exclusives. However you have to pay silly online fees to use your own internet bandwidth, less customisation, inferior game library and every single multiplatform game or PS4 exclusive to console game looks/plays a lot better on PC.
Seriously, who really gives a fcuk that PS4 Pro saves you £170 when you go to buy the hardware when everything else is inferior and you are charged that £170 you saved and then some on online fees?. You really aren’t making a strong argument here?????
Add a few hundred onto that price over the lifetime of console, $70 for just a 1 year playstation plus subscription,
Think you will find you can build a console killer no problem.
Reason they are even making the console generation shorter is because they are falling behind. The way integrated graphics are going on latest cpu’s there really isn’t much need for future consoles in coming years.
My skull canyon NUC under tv which is just for HTPC is almost as good as my old PS3 for gaming. It can do most 1080p games already with a crappy on board gpu built into cpu. Give it a few more generations and they will be surpassing consoles.
Future will see even more convergence in tech industry, Where one device can do everything.
How many people have dumped a separate camera these days as phone cameras are good enough for majority.
Wouldn’t be surprised if future phones have so many cores and extra gpu performance that they make a dock that plugs into tv.
Your phone now becomes the game console, In dock it’s powered along with extra dedicated cpu/gpu for yet more performance, Unplug it and it’s a phone and handheld gaming device.
meanwhile the peasants think a 400$ hardware got magic hardware than can give true 4k…not only peasants are fools but also are bad listeners when cerny talked about post processing technology and about “closer to 4k” im not on 4k or even own a 4k display yet so for me 4k is still out of my reach at the moment but my 980 ti more than enough for 1440p 144hz
They piss me of so much, just like the idiotic hype that ps4 can do 1080p 60 fps; Truly gullible naive fools who fall for hype.
There’s already people who pre ordered :/
There are people who bought another ps4 because HUR DUR SPECIAL EDITION PAINTED A DIFFERENT COLOR…Yeah freaking plebs
Remember R2-D2 X360?
I didn’t just pre order it last nite I paid it off. 431.99 after tax, 55 inch LG B6 and PS4 Pro this November lets do it.
What are you talking about? It doesn’t matter what your monitor is. If you DO own a 980 ti then you can definitely see 4K benefits on a 1080p monitor. When you increase the resolution, you are not only getting a cleaner, more sharper image, but it works as an alternative to texture filtering. And sometiems if the LOD is not tied to the engine, you can see even LOD benefits from resolution increase.
Downsampling is a godsend. Have you wondered why emulated games look so, so much better at ridiculously high resolutions (4K, 8K, custom 8K)?
still not gonna run at 144hz, which is a lot more important than a prettier rendering.
That is not relevant.
Sure, being able to see things more clearly at a distance is a benefit especially if you are using anisotropic filtering.. It’s more like an alternative to antialiasing. But I’ve noticed with rasterization no matter what resolution you run a game at there’s always aliasing.. But downsampling does reduce the need for additional hardcore antialiasing… to a degree. IMHO cheaper methods then become adequate…
But but the power of optimization!
You would be surprised with what a single 980ti can do at 4k. Go ahead and pick up a display. You will be able to run a few games on high settings at 4k, e.g. Mad Max or Battlefield 4. If not, just go to medium. At 4k even medium looks outrageous.
But like i said i prefer mostly high refresh rates going from ultra 1440p 144hz to 4k 60hz at medium or high is a big no for me…
Too get those kind of graphics for $400, PS4 Pro will sell like hot cakes. 55 inch LG B6 and PS4 Pro this November sounds good to me.
ps4 pro is better…with 400$i can play with 4k resolution…with a pc i need 1000$ because the pc gaming have bad port…
hahaha. try better bro. enjoy your up-scale 30FPS
That’s good, that’s 6fps above what their eyes can see, console users don’t need more than that.
enjoy bad ports,no exclusive like uncharted or the last of us….
now i’m going to playing red dead redemption LOL
You mean like those exclusives that just came to the PC with the PS Now service (officially) & have been available by emulator (unofficially) for years?
Oooohhhhhh, what’s wrong bruv, need some Prep H for that butthurt?
You keep mentioning the same games, whats wrong peasant you got no other exclusives?
bad ports? hahaha. it’s not like console game are free from troubles either. sometimes dev push the graphic option too far you guys will get poor performance with no way around about it until dev release “optimization” patch (a.k.a graphical downgrades). it could be days or weeks before the patch being released. on pc simply change the graphic setting to the one you’re comfortable with and then play. no waiting.
exclusive? hmm that is probably one of the reason why some people considering owning a console. if not there isn’t much reason not to play the game on pc if the game also available on PC. hey why did you think your beloved sony make PS4 pro to begin with? because they openly admit that they don’t want their existing customer to go to high end pc gaming! also when it comes to “exclusive” there is certain game that no matter what you do will be unplayable on console. look at heavy RTS and game like ARMA series.
You don’t seem to realise that there are far far FAR more games exclusive to the PC platform, if you plan on buying ps4 pro or anything else with your money then good for you, enjoy your platform of choice. But try and understand that ‘upscaled 4K’ is not the the same as ‘4K’, it’s not even close. With PC gaming your only restricted by the budget you set your self, I’m happy playing on my large living room TV with a wireless lapboard, i have a friend with two 1080s in SLI and on a 32″ 4K monitor, then on the other end of the spectrum we have a friend who games on 720p monitor on a PC that cost him less than £250 to build using 2nd hand parts. We all play the same games on verying spec and cost PC’s and peripherals, it’s all about choice.
“But try and understand that ‘upscaled 4K’ is not the the same as ‘4K’, it’s not even close.”
Surely that depends on the quality of the algorithm in play?
From what I’ve heard you are simply strong:, everyone is saying the end result is very close. There’s a softness to the image that sets it apart from true native 4k, but the end result is still, according to those who were at Sony’s own event, a massive improvement and actually not that far off native 4k at all.
This honestly doesn’t surprise me as those who have been keeping up with upscalers in modern AV equipment have seen a huge shift in the quality of upscaling in recent years.
I have a 4K TV and 4K blue ray player, the difference between upscaled and native 4K is very noticeable, and at any distance. I was looking forward to seeing the 4K PlayStation , I was curious to see the specs and to see how a console would possibly play games at 4K 30fps, this is just Bulls!t marketing for the ill informed buyer using the magical ‘4K’ buzzword to lure them in, and it will work
I’d imagine you are playing a 1080p blu-ray disc and comparing it against a 4k blu-ray of the same movie right? A 1080 blu-ray is going to have a fixed amount of detail on every single frame such that all you are doing by upscaling it is intelligently enlarging the picture whilst trying to prevent artefacting.
Film and game assets differ in that game assets frequently pack in details that the resolution they are outputted can’t resolve and contain a lot of ‘noise’ (in the form of shimmering/jaggies) that upscaling helps with that simply isn’t an issue with films where actor.
Basically, think about raising the resolution of a game with fixed resolution assets, such as something made entirely with sprites vs raising the resolution on a 3D polygonal game.
The former sees no change because of its static, fixed resolution nature (analogous to the 1080p blu-ray) whereas the latter does — note that I’m simply using this example to illustrate why a movie isn’t a good example because of the way detail is completely static, don’t take this to mean I think the PS4 Pro is natively outputting at 4k… because in reality it’s likely giving games a resolution boost AND upscaling.
Remember, there’s no reason to believe that the PS4 is upscaling from 1080 necessarily (upscaling itself isn’t that taxing, and the PS4 Pro’s GPU is almost twice as fast as the PS4s, so it stands to reason the baseline is higher).
In fact we know the baseline has to be higher because otherwise the images we are seeing of an image upscaled to 4k and then downsampled back to 1080 on our 1080p displays would just look like 1080p… or possibly even worse for the image having gone through the wringer.
And from what we saw this is categorically not true: RoTR looked really crisp/clean such that it was immediately noticeable to me even over the stream (having played the PC version at max/1080 the just hours earlier). The same held true for every other game shown.
personally i would prefer for dev to maintain reasonable res and target 60FPS instead of going with 4k 30FPS (up scaled or not) just for the sake of marketing purpose.
Absolutely right, 30fps should not be standard, OK, in some games, slow paced, 30fps is fine, DayZ Arma etc, but 60fps should be the goal. It fells so much better
They can do that too, and many devs are. The devs can work with fidelity/resolution/framerate and create profiles for the game, each one focusing on one of the two.
Though, TBH, I can’t see fps reaching 60 in many games (RoTR supposedly hits around 40-50 when unlocked) because although the Pro has a hefty GPU upgrade it’s CPU has only seen relatively modest improvements (and it was weak to begin with).
when i look at the original PS4 spec i think the gpu should be decent. but not on the CPU. the CPU should be faster. but both AMD and sony probably thinking the deficit of the clock speed can be compensate by throwing more core to the hardware.
you can also buy a new sh*tbox every 2-3 years, no backwards compatibility, no open source programs, no support for multiple controllers, no graphics options to tune the game you want, no free online, minimal game deals, sh*t audio, sh*t community, you can partake in the fanboy…um i mean console wars, you can waste way more money than you ever thought possible, its amazing!!!!
you can say all you want… but you can’t play red dead redemption or vanquish LOOOOL enjoy bad ports and indie games!
Oh look the peasant has 2-3 games this is cute…. read dead came ages ago, dont you have anything else? Lol vanquish is that not a 4 hour game? Chances are it will be ported to pc like every other Japanese game has lately.
ace of combat 7,uncharted 4,horizon zero dawn,killzone,god of war,bayonetta,super mario galaxy,star ocean,ni no kuni 1 and 2,journey,midnight club los angeles,halo,tekken,king of fighters xiv,kingdom hearts,final fantasy XV.
lol sorry to say but…pc don’t have this masterpiece…
id rather not play them then not have any choice on how i play it, im not a mindless sheep, i like having control over my gaming experience like use of any controller ever, graphics options, framerate choices, sales on THOUSANDS of games multiple times a year, upgradability, privacy if i choose to, MOUSE AND KEYBOARD, unlimited storage options with different speeds, backwards compat, forwards compat, free online ALL THE TIME. also you console peasants have to rebuy the same game over and over when you get a new box bc oh yea…no backwards compat, how sheeplike of you. Bioshock remastered? free Skyrim special edition? not needed but still free at least darksiders 2 deathinitive? free update also so have fun blowing all your money on mindless marketing tactics with no options for personalization you mindless goat
wow omg i dont have red dead….oh wait the xenia and pcsx3 emulators are coming along nicely so ill have it soon and with graphics hacks to make it better than a remaster lol and with 100% rebindable mapping 🙂 and btw vanquish has been announced for pc already lol got anything else peasant?
yeah emulator…you need wait some years LOL
PC master wait!
Shut the f’ up with your comment you absolutely don’t know sh*t about a pc or how to build one cost efficient that would tower the ps4 pro.
He is right, you just can’t beat it in price/performance for the overall package, reliability that your game independent of your hardware choice will work.
Yes you can and you are wrong. There are countless threats proving this and yet again you MORONS are falling for this despite it has been proven again and again that SONY LIES AND OVERHYPES…But hey running games on med high has not taught you that yet, ps plus price increase has not taught you that yet. THE VERY FACT THEY RELEASING AN UPGRADED CONSOLE THAT SIMPLY UPSCALES RESOLUTION IS NOT TEACHING YOU THAT EITHER….
BLABLABLA BLA BLA BLA!
Durk!
You can absolutely run games at NOT 4K – just like the PS4 pro – on a cheap gaming PC. Now on a cheap gaming PC you won’t have to pay double for multiplayer and you will get to choose reasonable settings instead of being forced to play games at 30 fps or worse.
You’re clueless.
Im not take a look at the latest digital foundry article, some games will be native 4k and thats a fact, i dont care if you prefer 1080p 60 fps over the 4k30p
The fact is that some games will run at native 4k, like the last of us remaster…
Accept it, it hurt less your ego.
4K 30 fps on a PS3 game
It’s not relevant that it’ll play f*cking last gen and indie games in native 4K.
We care about CURRENT games.
Want me to go around touting how I can play games from 200-2004 in 8K and 16K 60 fps?
The games that will be 4K are last-gen / indie games that would run at 4K on a comparable PC just as easily. There is no magic involved here. Less demanding games can run at higher resolutions.
>i dont care if you prefer 1080p 60 fps over the 4k30p
I don’t need to worry about that as I get to choose whichever resolution I want and can tweak game settings further to get the look and performance that feels best for me. You’re stuck with whatever devs choose for you.
Read some stuff first then speak sony pony clueless naive gullible buffoon.
No, its game dependant…
Some will be able, some will not and then need upscaling.
Indie games and last gen remasters? Lmao.
Yep, they might be able to run Worms at native 4k 30fps.
Tetris will run fine for you in up scaled 4k, Enjoy! 😉
>Upscaled 4k
>No choice in how to allocate power of new system
>Extra power will only affect existing games that devs go out of their way to patch
>Undoubtly sub 30 fps
Top kek
More like Fraud 4k vs Real 4k.
..
Lol this is creepy as fak. Lol
sony dont need…pc gaming is dying!
Hey, not enough overwatch news for you today?
pc is more alive than ever wtf are you smoking? Sony white stuff?
He’s from De Nile, don’t you know?
It’s natural for him to be in De Nile……
Why are we even comparing these? Was there ever a concern that consoles will be more powerful than PCs?
Because it’s actual evidence that it’s upscaled 4K?
Didn’t Sony say as much during the conference though? Why would we need or even want proof?
Don’t care enough to watch their marketing conferences.
Since they are using the term 4K plainly everywhere I assumed that it wasn’t disclosed.
Was there a concern that consoles would be more powerful than PC you ask?. Fcuk no! 🙂 It’s still interesting to see the comparison however a budget PC costing around £500 substantially out performs this PS4 Pro despite not having it’s hardware subsidised with online fees that will add an extra £360 to the cost of the PS4. Funny thing is that no PC gamer would class a PC with an Athlon quad core £69 and Rx470 £170 as a 4k gaming machine but here we are with 4k console despite having inferior hardware in every area.
consoletard idiocy is awlays a concern and those idiots never learn.
Wait what’s the point then? Unless this upscaling technique is really amazing, it all seems quite strange and sketchy. We all know running something in it’s native resolution will always look better than upscaling it. For example, a PS3 game that runs at 720p or sub 720p looks worse on a 1080p display and is a blurry mess, jagged lines etc. So why are they actually hyping this PS4 Pro to be 4K when in reality it’s all simply upscaled? It’s weird and honestly seems so pointless.
Do you really understand absolutely nothing about marketing?
No I knew they were gonna hype it up, it’s Sony after all. Up until I read this article, I thought perhaps the Pro would have run games in native 4K but obviously not on the highest settings. I thought perhaps Sony were gonna suck it up and take a loss to create a premium console but after reading that it’s simply upscaled, it just seems like such a pointless console now.
How is it pointless? They get to peddle “4K” to the console plebs, it’s going to sell like hotcakes.
I meant the console itself is pointless. I’m not referring to hype, just that it’s a pointless console due to the fact that it’s supposedly “4K” when in reality it’s not. I don’t care about the dumb console consumers who buy it. It’s a pointless console regardless.
It’s not pointless, it’s there to make money and it’s going to make it rain.
Because technically, for console peasants, it will be an actual increase in visual detail, so they’ll get hyped & buy into it, no matter what.
Not real 4K? Like those idiots give a sh*t. Most of them don’t even realise their precious PoorStation 4 &/or Xblow One’s still don’t run at 1080p/60 FPS. Forget even trying to figure out how many of them don’t even know what “upscaling” means.
The Scorpio won’t be much better off either, even if it does have considerable better hardware than the PS4 Pro, but that’ll get overhyped, & falsely advertised to hell & back as well, “because why not?”
Digital Foundry said the effect exceeded their expectations and was impressive. And TBH, you can tell it’s impressive even in the low-quality video (look at how crisp/bold edges are). I’m surprised more people couldn’t see the difference… unless they were magically expecting their 1080p displays to show them high resolution details…
To say it is ‘simply upscaled’ misses the point because it plays down the quality of the upscaling in play, as well as the resolution from which it will be upscaled. To answer your question: it looks noticeably better, especially when in combination with HDR which allows resolution of fine details.
Wait to see the effect yourself, then decide on the value of it, because this is NOTHING like the mere ‘resizing’ upcaling you are thinking off: the end result here noticeably boosts clarity and detail result in an image that is markedly superior to the original, unlike that 720p example.
And its still not native. THey can take “checker board rendering” and stick it where the sun dont shine.
Any particular reason you don’t like a technique that drastically improves image clarity and detail (which is without a doubt confirmed to be true)? Seems like a really odd thing to have contention with.
If you’d just prefer the non-upscaled image (yay for no change?), or an upscale that merely resizes the image (yay for not playing in a tiny window?)… Well, I think that makes absolutely no sense.
Right now what the PS4 Pro is doing in terms of upscaling stomps on anything the PC can offer until AMD and Nvidia begin offering a similar feature using a high quality temporal reconstruction algorithm at the driver level… which actually, would be kinda awesome.
I dont like the PR spin. I dont mind the upscaling it self. The media is covering the PS Pro like its a legit 4k console and its BS.
What media? I haven’t seen a single report from a gaming site saying that the games are running natively.
Its playing games at 1080p and 1440p thats not revolutionary. On PC you dont get a 4k panel if you dont have 4k hardware.
I have no idea what this post even means because it’s filled with, what appears to be, missing punctuation, and what are either assumptions about my post which are wrong or inferences which aren’t made clear (leaving me lost as to how, or indeed ‘why’ you are bringing them up).
I normally answer a post, but I don’t even understand what you’re saying here, and failing that I don’t even see why. It’s utterly incoherent.
For a person that types a lot you seem to understand very little of what you type. You dont get that PS pro plays games at 1080p and 1440p? thats not an assumption. Also bringing up upscaling on a PC gaming website? to a PC gamer if upscaling is used in a new game that means its a crap console port. We play native res here.
Your comment makes no sense because it flat out doesn’t say what you want to with the current punctuation in place (I’m only now able to work out what you said because you’ve supplemented it with an additional post).
The result is a post that not only DOESN’T say what you want to say, but has several conflicted interpretations depending on where one chooses to insert punctuation. On top of that you switch tacts midway without signalling why, only compounding things further.
Basically, unless someone already agrees with your general position (or is you) you would need to test out the multiple interpretations available before the statement finally made any sense.
Here’s what you’re message reads like when it’s written properly and all subjects and subject transitions are plainly stated.
“The PS4 PRO is playing games at 1080p and 1440p [and upscaling them to 4k]. That’s not revolutionary.
On PC you don’t get a 4k panel if you don’t have 4k hardware [to drive a native 4k experience].”
Back on point: What you are saying is an assumption unless you have a source. In fact, it contradicts Digital Foundry’s own analysis that suggests a machine of the PS Pro’s spec could run games at current quality at a resolution of around 3200×1800, and upscale from there.
Also, the concept your idea that upscaling = crap port is an apples to oranges comparison as on PC ‘native resolution’ is supported on an arbitrary basis, rather than guaranteeing a certain performance bar making a ‘forced’ temporal reconstruction from a sub-native resolution unattractive (though as an option it has merit IMO): The PS4 Pro guarantees equal or higher performance in its high resolution mode.
Seemingly only one game in modern existence that has that even has temporal reconstruction baked (Quantum Break) and IIRC they patched that (not to mention the construction algorithm was based on a 720p image, and was of relatively poor quality, whereas the PS4 Pro is based on, at least, a 1080 image and uses what is evidently a higher quality algorithm).
No, what we are talking about is the option of resolution scaling here. Something that NO ONE ever complains about. If anything PC gamers praise it for the granularity it provides in games such as Battlefield.
The difference with PS4 Pro and PC though is that the resolution scale algorithm can be applied to all games, whereas on PC it depends on the game to support it.
TBH there’s no reason Nvidia and AMD can’t add support for this kind of upscaling at the driver level, and I’d imagine that is precisely what they will do either through an update or with their next generation of hardware, that way even their entry level gaming cards could be branded as ‘4k’ ready. In that respect it is something new and something that PC’s don’t do yet.
When we use the technical term for a certain resolution, we’re actually running our games at said resolution, not using an algorithm that upscales to it.
Don’t market your fùcking platform as 4K capable or 4K ready when in fact it’s rendering at half the resolution (or less).
That’s because there’s no universal way to change resolution scale for games on PC: You HAVE to run it at the stated resolution (or run in a window… but come one, hardly anyone does that).
Last I checked people liked the granularity of control over performance/quality in Frostbyte games offering by resolution scale, no? I bet when Nvidia and AMD implement this as at the driver level you won’t suddenly be so angry about people misusing terms, which tells me you aren’t really irked by the misuse of the facts.
And you aren’t irked by the misrepresentation of the facts either because Sony laid their cards out on the table very clearly at New York.
And your ire isn’t coming from pro-consumer concern either as if it did people of your position would be concern for console gamers, rather than contemptuous of them in the comments above.
So I’ll tell you what this is really about. What REALLY pisses you off:
The truth is you don’t like the idea of other people thinking they are getting the same experience as you when you are personally invested in that not being the case. Because you intepret the superiority of your experience with your personal superiority over others (which is a fragile ill-gotten sense of superiority that attracts jealously violent protection of the kind in the sentiment behind your comment).
Stopped reading the moment you started pretending you could psychoanalyse me and telling me what I’m thinking.
You mean the very end of the post? Not too torn up about that.
Are you serious? ‘Psychanalysis’? Dude, you and your legion are pratically wearing your sentiments on your sleeves, I simply did you the decency of showing my working out so you know I’m not just pulling the accusation out of nowhere, but show you most to practically anyone and they would know what was up .
You don’t need a degree in psychology to see something when it is that bleeding obvious, part of a long-standing trend and not a single other viable explanation exists.
After all, if an explanation did exist explaning away all the damning contradictions in your attitude would be trivially easy. You chose not to do that; same as every other person I’ve called out on this (either that, or they start feebly blabbering about hardware or some other nonesense that doesn’t actually exhonerate them).
Spot on Olek. This is exactly what I’m thinking too. PR bs. But guess the peasants are gonna fall for it anyway, and that’s exactly what Sony want.
When you say ANYTHING the PC can offer you are also including running the games in native 4k which is patently untrue. Hell, the PC can do something that stomps on any kind of reconstruction technique which is downsampling from a higher resolution like true 4k or higher (8k downsampled to 4k comes to mind).
There’s no way any kind of upscaling or virtual technique can stomp on true native support.To think so is buying into the hype. Besides, the PC is such an open platform that even if one group, company or person doesn’t currently offer a certain feature someone else will.. sooner or later. You seem to underestimate the flexibility of the PC platform. The only edge any console has.. at least temporarily is price.
In terms of features with consoles you are beholden to what the platform holder chooses to give you.. Not so with the PC. You could argue that only Microsoft can upgrade directx for example but other groups can offer competing APIs and such like Vulkan and OpenGL like has been demonstrated.. Indivudals can make things like ReShade, SweetFX, gedosato.. etc.
PC games don’t need to actually support an option in the game itself. It can be added by the user with the right kind of software. There’s nothing magical about a cheap console that the PC platform can not compete with it sooner or later. Especially if you can throw enough resources (money, time, etc.) at the problem. 😛
Besides, the PS4 NeoPro isn’t even out yet is it? There’s still time… and in the meantime the PC is still more flexible. The choices aren’t as limited as you make them out to be.
Also, if anything what the PS4 Pro is doing should be considered Faux or Virtual 4k period… and yes.. AMD or Nvidia could probably patch it into their drivers easily (if you can’t already do something similar or better as it is.. and often times with the PC if there’s a will there’s a way). Doesn’t necessarily mean the PC crowd will actually want it though unless the individual has money for a 4k display but not a card capable of driving true 4k gaming to it.
Obviously, I was omitting actual native resolution because that would be an apples to oranges comparison. I was talking in the context of apples to apples – and in that context the PC doesn’t offer an equivlent for this kind of upscaling short of a few select games.
In one that comes to mind… Quantum Break… PC Gamers appreciated the option to turn that off.. because they didn’t want it.. 😛
Bad example:
i. It’s forced. Not so on console and if it was an option as I suggest it wouldn’t be contentious.
ii. Scaling up from a sub native resolution of most people’s displays when, optmisation willing, the game should run fine natively to begin with.
Now imagine having the OPTION to run a game at a visual quality that you couldn’t achieve natively and tell me you’d look that gift horse in the mouth: You wouldn’t. No one would.
Actually, I have no problem with it. Just the assertion that it’s somehow better than ANYTHING the PC can provide…. anything that makes the picture softer is NOT better than ANYTHING the PC can provide (which is quite a bit if you do enough research). Even if it’s better than the run of the mill upscaling.
I’m all for options…. and that’s the reason why people had a problem with what was going on in QB because it was NOT optional (until it was patched)… and unless I’m wrong it’s still not optional on the Xbox One is it?
That hardware hasn’t suddenly become powerful enough to not need it in the meantime.
You could easily take #2 and apply it to whether or not PC Gamers would want a global reconstruction technique on all their games. But then again this comes down to the individual. Not the typical DSO Gaming regular for example however… I’d hazard a guess and say most people around here wouldn’t want it in favor of upgrading and doing it natively.
Again better than ANYTHING the PC can provide in terms of upscaling features. I thought the context I stated it in made that pretty clear because otherwise you must just be assuming I’m some random idiot who doesn’t know something so frighteningly elementary. For once, Watson is going to have to chide Holmes!
“I’d hazard a guess and say most people around here wouldn’t want it in favor of upgrading and doing it natively.”
And in an ideal world we’d all be made of money and have expensive videocards, and would never make any compromises or trade-offs… And you know what, that’s exactly the fantasy many people here seem to live in.
But I don’t live for the theoretical, but the actual: And in the actual world their are trade-offs and several benefits are, in practice, mutually exclusive.
What I’ll say is this: plenty of people, even on this site, continue to use older cards that have served them well. Or may have a HTPC build in the future with a lower-end modern card (which may inherit their current card when they upgrade their main rig) — And I’m sure many would be interested, if not, well, no harm in having options.
QB’s upscaling isn’t optional on the Xbox One, even now, but that’s a somewhat unusual case because it is perfectly reasonable to expect that level of hardware to run a AAA game at 1080p, one wouldn’t reasonably expect (and so shouldn’t take issue with) upscaling being employed to reach a 4k output.
In that case are you sure that your expectations of the Xbox One aren’t exceeding what it can actually do… and it probably goes without saying but GPU performance isn’t the only factor involved (CPU power, TDP are examples of other factors). I’m sure Remedy didn’t develop the game on there the way they did just to screw over Xbox One users. I’m sure if it was practical to do so like it was on PC they would have patched the option in and I’m sure they know what they are doing. They probably know more about what the hardware is capable of than either you or I.
Also, do I even have to say this? You don’t have to be made of money to have relatively recent hardware that can run the games the way you want them to. Just good money management skills. Knowledge and skill also go a long way to getting the most of what you’ve got. As for the rest.. I can’t confirm or deny as I haven’t seen a formal poll or survey as to what the average rig here is like. I just know that enthusiasts like the ones who show up here tend to prioritize their hobby a bit… and those who don’t care.. likely don’t care about things like 4k either… or whether or not the type of upscaling they are using is the best or slightly worse…
“Doesn’t necessarily mean the PC crowd will actually want it
though unless the individual has money for a 4k display but not a card
capable of driving true 4k gaming to it.”
This is likely to be a VERY common scenario in near future when 4K panels become cheap enough that 1080p ones basically become obsolete (or flat out fall out of manufacturing).
What you will have then is people gaming on 4K monitors who may well have low-end cards such as a GTX 1150 or RX 560 (doubly so for pre-builts that are likely to have this class of graphics card included) — i.e. cards that support modern DP standards/HDR and all that jazz, but don’t have the grunt to provide a great 4K experience without significant quality compromises.
In the current paradigm these users will have to make some hefty sacrifices or use their monitor’s sub-par upscaling, neither of which hold a candle to the method that the PS4 Pro is employing.
And in that respect the PS4 Pro stomps the PC. And as much as I appreciate the lecture, it’s not needed and is condescending because it implies I’m speaking out of ignorance… when I’m actually talking out of a broader perspective than even yourself (heck, it wouldn’t surprise me if I’m just flat out more knowlegble in general than you are — you never know, so show some respect! :P).
You’re projecting there a bit because you saying you are speaking from a broader perspective than I am is condescending to me. Pot.. kettle.. You hardly even know me…
And no… the PC is not going to stand still in terms of what hardware or software is available and or in use forever. Again you are underestimating the PC.
I just beg to differ as to whether console gamers are in a better place in regards to 4k because they don’t even have a choice to run games in native resolution no matter how much money, time or skill they have… and as magical as you might think their technique is… It’s still upscaling after all..
The difference between you and me is that you assume utter ignorance based on nothing, and the proceed to tell me things I already know, whereas I have actually seen your cards (you told me yourself what you know) and acted based on that.
And this holds true for both of your posts: You are putting words in my mouth and propping me up to hold positions I categorically do not, over and over, and over. I assume, because you think I’m stupid enough to actually hold the positions you think I do when that is not the case. Look here:
“And no… the PC is not going to stand still in terms of what hardware or software is available and or in use forever”
I don’t think this and didn’t state it. This is so obvious that to actually suggests you think little of me. Notice this is utterly unlike my own comments which DIRECTLY address yours.
“I just beg to differ as to whether console gamers are in a better place in regards to 4k because they don’t even have a choice to run games in native resolution no matter how much money, time or skill they have…”
Again, I DON’T think this and didn’t state it. You are flat out misinterpreting one tiny comment and blowing it up way out of proportion as some kind of philosophical stance that I simply do not hold.
“Did you ever stop to consider that perhaps people buying those aren’t getting them expecting or even wanting 4k gaming or to run on 4k monitors? ”
Again, I wasn’t even talking about things like that nor did I deride this position or attempt to discredit it, so no I didn’t stop to think about that, but why is that contentious when I didn’t dote to comment on them either? UNLIKE YOU?
“For someone who has a “broader perspective” you sure seem to go with the flow of marketing speak a lot.”
Actually, I’ve not done that a single time. Go on, try and quote a single example: You can’t. There’s no marketing even mentioned in my post: AGAIN making stuff up.
“Furthermore as magical as you might think their technique is… It’s still upscaling after all.. and from what I can see does not hold a candle to native 4k… and looks a soft as I’d expect upscaling to look..”
Actually I don’t think it is magical and I have stated nothing of the sort. YOU are saying that I am saying that. I am merely saying that it is very impressive in orders well above a typical upscale, something borne out by what I saw, and indeed, by those who were in attendance in New York. THAT’S ALL I’M SAYING.
And you know what’s funny: THAT’S ALL Sony themselves are saying too. So not only are you putting words in my mouth, but their’s TOO!
“It’s still upscaling after all.. and from what I can see does not hold a candle to native 4k… and looks a soft as I’d expect upscaling to look..”
I am relaying what has been said by those who saw it: that being that it looks MUCH better than a typically resize style upscale… I saw that for myself with the stream and people who saw the demo live said the same.
They also conveyed the same as you, that the image was soft, but still that it was lightyears more crisper than you would expect from mere upscale. That’s all I’m saying. WHAT are you finding so hard to understand about this exactly?
“Actually, I’ve not done that a single time. Go on, try and quote a single example: You can’t. There’s no marketing even mentioned in my post: AGAIN making stuff up.” go back to your comment about the PS4 upscaling stomping on anything (which is NOT specific) the PC can do. That’s marketing fluff. To be fair though it’s yours not theirs… and it’s more like fanboygirl fluff… I’m almost tempted to say “and you know it”… but you already think I assume a lot as it is.. 😛
Also, I don’t know the full breadth of what you know or think. I fully admit that. Nor should I be required to. I’m not psychic. Either way I’m not telling you this is what you think I’m straight up stating things to you.
That’s why I use descriptive words like “you might”… You are the only one here trying to infer level of intelligence.
and no I haven’t told you everything I know.. about anything in general.. but then again I’m not interested in a pissing contest with you I just disagree with you about this whole 4k situation..
As a PC gamer, the comments here are toxic.
Whenever someone starts talking with “As a X”, I know I can confidently dismiss him as a retàrd.
As a member of the Human Race, – [something something something].
😛
The rule applies. Only idiots think they are being “deep” if they remind the reader/listener that we are members of the same species. The worst thing is the term “human being”. You can ignore what comes before or after that if someone uses it unironically.
AS A VEGAN…..yup…see it works.
AS A CHRISTIAN….Yup still works.
It was necessary because you people would’ve tagged me as a ‘console pleb’ or whatever it is.
As a console gamer the PC gamers should be allowed to discuss gaming however the fcuk they want on a single platform PC website.
what is toxic is consoletard ignorance.
He wouldn’t even be approved to join with that username.
Nice try, Neogaf is a shithole.
‘And there will still be dumb peasants saying PS4 Pro can do 4k for $400 while a $400 PC can’t.’ Yes I love when new hardware launches as it outs all the console trolls gloating and doing all the same things that the so called PC elitists which has them crying their eyes out all gen long. It will be funny to see them start trolling only to inform them that a £69 Athlon CPU paired to a £170 Rx470 substantially out performs their 4K beast which is a £500 PC that doesn’t come with £360 in online fees propping up the total cost of gaming 🙂
They said a lot of fancy stuff so they wouldnt have to say the PS pro couldnt do native 4k. Their messaging was so confusing many people believe its either native 4k or 4k with a 90% resolution scale…
“They said a lot of fancy stuff so they wouldnt have to say the PS pro couldnt do native 4k. ”
“many people believe its either native 4k ”
sony’s hype and consoletards in a nutshell.
Sony accomplished what they wanted to do. the PS Pro is seen as a 4k gaming console now. Even though we all know its upscaling 1080p and 1440p games to 4k.
Sony exec 1: “We need to sell PS4 Pro without losing out on money every sale, we cant do that if we release a 4k native console with a UHD 4k BR player”
Sony exec 2: “Lets lie and call it a 4k console, lets change the term upscaling and make up a new buzz word. As for the BR player lets push 4k media streaming and HDR”
Sony exec 1: “This is why you get paid the big bucks man… oh and no worries i already paid off the top 4-5 media sites so they all say PS pro is 4k”
So basically the PS4 Pro is releasing in two months and its already obsolete. I mean its basically doing 1080p and 1440p gaming. Something most people could do with $300+ GPUs.
Lower resolution textures, lower fidelity DOF, blue light source is brighter.
For 399 it is not bad. But at what cost? 30 fps, not real 4k, paying more for games, paying for online play (that one is sad)
Its gonna sell for sure, the avarage peasant is gonna run for it.
But THIS IS GOOD NEWS FOR US. Sony is trying to push 4k into peasants living rooms, so ps5 is gonna bring a better, overall, image quality and maybe we can say goodbye to washed-out textures kinda 720p. Im really looking forward to what naughty dog will be able to push on this tiny system. Im a really fan of smallFF pc, so the way console manufacters deal with system power draw, cooling solution is something that i really enjoy. Damn building my nes pc was a pain, so i know what they deal with
In life you get what you pay for.. It’s only $400 for a reason.
There are no shortcuts in life
Brilliant!
One of the best memes I have seen so far.
Lol Sqaure picked this shot because the lighting is broken on PC in this one scene, nice cherry picking, also it’s probably just a bullshot
God dang do I love Lara’s perfect tïtties!
You are most definitely fat obeast neck beard.
How much do they sell this thing for?
We need to stop referring to what the Pro is doing as 4k. This is what marketing shills are paid millions to do, take a word that means one thing and launch psyops to make it seem like something else to the casual listener.
Native 4k is 4k. Anything else, this “upscale” B.S., is not 4k.
tl;dw: Major PS4 games will NOT be 4K but rather upscaled from something like 1440p. Exceptions may be last-gen remakes and indie games with less demanding graphics. Also HDR is great but only works if you’ve got an extremely expensive TV for now.
Is all of this hate for PS4 Pro really necessary? A console that can produce near 4K picture quality which then further benefits from the inclusion of HDR tech at a $400 price point is pretty impressive in my book. Some of you seem to be a lot more concerned with pixel counting and the fact that some level of upscaling is taking place behind the scenes than the end result.
Simply put, that point it’s a brute force form of super sampling though.
The biggest difference here is gamma brightness, not sharpness.
I just downloaded the PC and PS4 Pro screenshots, opened them up in Photoshop, lowered the mids and highlights slightly on the PS4 Pro version. The result is they look identical apart from the PC having slightly smoother depth of field blur.
The conclusion: The majority of the difference shown here is just a contrast difference that is negated by the different contrasts on each persons TV. Sony’s upscaling tech is clearly very powerful and closely matches brute force native 4K. That’s important because that means you can basically get the same result on the reasonably priced PS4 Pro console that you get on an expensive high end PC.
What I was saying is that due to not just compresion but the fact that on most people’s monitors. Including the one I’m using now (I do social media on a small 19 inch monitor).. It’s like when someone takes a jpeg screenshot at a higher resolution and then reduces the dimensions. That act alone introduces a type of antialiasing.. even if you don’t use any in the game itself.
Youtube videos tend to be downsampled even if you set them to be at the source resolution (by virtue of people having different monitors at different resolutions, how fast their internet connection is, etc.). So youtube videos are a poor way to judge. I never said SSAA blurs aliasing.
Anyway, I have no argument against super sampling so I don’t have anything for you to argue against… and it’s obvious you don’t understand my point when you are trying to explain super sampling to me. Suffice to say that again I have realized that aliasing tends to always happen when you rasterize at the native resolution of your monitor unless you employ something like that.
Hell, some people have thought that for example running a game at 1440p on a 27 inch monitor would produce no aliasing and you wouldn’t need any antialiasing.. because 1440p is “enormous”.. But I’ve found that to be untrue.
Oh yeah I agree, the appropriate term for that would be scaling.
You initially said that aliasing (scaling/sampling) would always exist, which I guess makes sense. I mistook that as “aliasing is always visible in rasterisation”.
All’s good.