All hell broke loose when Valve decided to change its policy for mods and let modders charge for their mods on Skyrim. Valve is currently experimenting with a new policy regarding mods that will let modders charge money for their works. In exchange, Valve will be taking 75% of the sales that are made from these new ‘Paid’ mods. And you can’t possibly imagine what’s been happening these past days on Steam.
First things first, the first for-profit Skyrim mod has been removed from the Steam workshop. That mod was using assets from Fores New Idles in skyrim. Modder Fore is against those ‘paywalls’ for mods. Fore contacted the creator of this – now deleted – mod who decided to take it down and issue a refund to all subscribers.
FilthyCasual, another modder who has worked on mods for Mass Effect (such as MEHEM, CEM, and Harby Module) has shared his opinion about this whole thing. FilthyCasual believes that this ‘paywall’ is a bad idea and explained his concerns about Valve doing such a thing.
“First, Valve, you have now made “modder” a dirty word here on the steam forums almost overnight. Thanks a bunch. You have now divided PC consumers and modders, when we used to be a pretty tight bunch.
Second, I now see mods going up that are little tiny swords and whatnot going up for sale. Bundles already that cost more than the game itself. In other words, I am concerned about a complete influx of mods that are completely useless and tiny and unsupported and updated, just because of money-grabbers who want a piece of the pie.
Third, this leads to microtransaction hell. Hell for consumers, and a deluge of stuff to compete against for us modders. This isn’t healthy competition. It is gonna be cutthroat. Thanks again for taking the fun out of it.
Fourth, there will be inevitable stealing of other’s people’s content and then selling it as their own. Some may claim that because they modified another mod’s content, they now have created their own mod and are free to sell. I disagree. They are making money at the expense of others.
Fifth, you have a “return policy,” if it is even worth of the name, that is full of holes. First, 24hrs isn’t much time to test if a mod will glitch out or not. Ever heard of a standard 14 or 30 day return policy? Let’s say a consumer buys a mod, then one week later the modder releases an update. This update has a bug, and the game crashes or glitches out. Then let’s say, for whatever reason (even a good one. Like real life got in the way) the modder doesn’t release an update to fix the bug. Before today, big deal. You could either uninstall the mod or revert to a previous version. Given it was free, most people wouldn’t complain too much. But NOW, a consumer will likely be stuck with a useless piece of software they paid good money for. Software that now is worth zilch. They will be, understandably, really upset, with no way to get their money back.
Lastly, you, Valve, are likely hurting good, legal sites like Nexus Mods as some greedy people take their mods, or the “premium versions” off the site in favor of posting to the Steam Workshop.”
FilthyCasual basically presented all the major issues regarding Valve’s decision to charge for mods. For what is worth, we believe that modders should be paid for their work. There are example of games that improve the original games in various and extraordinary ways. Take for example Brutal Doom. While you may not be a fan of its extreme gore effects, there is no denying that this mod brings fresh ideas to the table.
However, it’s also easy to exploit this system with mods that are similar to that ‘Horse Armour’ DLC that Bethesda introduced to Oblivion. We may very well see High-Resolution Texture Packs or simple ‘replacement’ mods behind a paywall, forcing gamers to pay in order to get access to them.
All in all, it’s a very tricky situation. The fact that people can steal other people’s ideas and charge for them is also discouraging. The fact that there will be one hell of DMCA claims is also another factor that may disappoint gamers (especially when a lot of mods with copyright materials were not being shut down given their ‘freeware’ nature).
It will be interesting to see what will happen with this whole controversy surrounding ‘paid’ mods.
Here are also Totalbiscuit’s thoughts regarding this topic.
There is also a petition for the removal of the paid content of the Steam Workshop.
Enjoy!
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
Contact: Email
Well, I certainly hope that his is the final push to let people realize how anti-consumer Valve has become. r/pcmasterrace should finally stop to “hail gaben” and stop seeing Valve as the savior of PC Gaming. They are not. I also think that Modders have all rights to get money for their work but there a FAR better ways than putting those mods behind paywalls and treating them as overpriced DLC. And 75% WTF Valve?! I can’t believe that Bethesda is supporting this nonsense.
Yep, but more and more Gamers are buying games on GoG -> I have lot of games there and its far better than Steam ($_$)
75% for Steam -> do you think they care for Moders or Gamers? no the Profit is for them, and rest is Propaganda.
Mods are Free and should stay that Way. And if you wanna Support Moders is always PayPal Donate and 100% goes to Moder !!!
True Steam can suck it, they are also stealing too much from the game developers pockets, I think about 30%. of each sale.
Maybe because that 30% its the cost of setting up a server from when all your buyers can download the game? Its not only a server to download content but synchronize cloud saves, DLCs, achievements, accounts, stickers and streams.
How much is the cost of setting up a client like Steam, do you really think Valve just made a website to buy games from like GOG?
Still GOG catalog sucks and I just cant wait the day that GOG will charge for mods too to laugh in GOG f-a-n-b-o-y-s face.
But its funny all the hate towards Steam cause that 75% when anybody doesnt know how much are getting Bethesda. Do you really think Bethesda will allow Valve to get 75% for selling a mod for their game?
“GOG catalog sucks” and that explains your entire being.
Amen brother I just hope now people will see that Valve has transformed into a full automatic money making machine, taking commisions on anything and everything.
I mean 75%, they don’t even want to hide it any more.
We wantz all ur moneyzz!
Luv u alz,
Saint Gabe (insert angelic chorus here)
PS: I need it for food
Haaaaaaallelujah Haaaaaaaallelujah, Hallelujah, hallelujah hallelujah.
Valve knows that they pretty much have the majority of the PC players on their palms and coz PC gaming is thriving more and more, they’re making more ways to exploit PC gamers. Valve has become EA, Ubicrap or any of those big companies that only care for their customer’s money —__—
I await a Gabe Newell statement.
Statement to what ? It’s very clear. They get 75% of the sale while the modder only gets 25%. It’s VERY CLEAR it’s an exploit
Ok, steam hater, we got the message, still Bethesda is behind this, so we dont know so far how many % is bethesda getting.
Haha! what’s next ? you’re going to brand me a pc hater?You can dig all of my comments ànd you will see this is the first time I bad mouthed Valve. I used to like Valve. I used to like Valve when they were not being Aholes to their customers.
I don’t particularly hate Valve. I hate big companies who only value their customers because they bring them loads of dough and recently Valve is becoming more and more like them
People will just pirate them anyways, no biggie.
The problem is wether anyone will actually upload it to some pirated location. I recently searched for Lush grasses and Trees mod in Nexus and found out its no longer there, and I still can’t find the proper one anywhere.
In the coming weeks, I reckon they will start to appear.
i dont know about that but the new vegas shrapenal armory that used weapons from various games can be found on torrents.
And to think that I always told to console only gamers that they don’t know how amazing is to mod your game with tons of FREE amazing content and now this.
Great fan of Desura (made by the guys at IndieDB and ModDB) which installs almost every mod directly into Steam games, or Nexus Mods…now it all will be a mess with people thinking into getting money out of their work and others thinking of not going that route…
Imagine this: yesterday I downloaded and installed Misery 2.1.1 in STALKER CoP (again), and by tomorrow they’ll make the next version to be paid. Hell no…no no, please no.
It is happening the same thing with rFactor 2 mods…at first there were no paid mods with the first game but now since “it takes a little bit more of work” to do the mods and such, some people are charging for their mods (which basically are cars with physics). I paid for one that I always was interested and thank god it was good (and those guys support it), but what happens if the mod is terrible and you have no support at all as it happens with a lot of them?
This thing of making all what always was for free now into paid content is getting out of hand. A mod is still a mod, I know there is hard work in a lot of them and those guys spend hours in the making, but never asked for money, they did them because they liked the game and to expand its life.
Without the games there are no mods…Now charging me for the game, for DLC’s, for micro-transactions, and charging me for the mods as well? No, thank you very much.
PS: I know there is the cool guy saying “…but no one is forcing you to pay for them…”. Not sure who is going to loose more…me without the paid mod, or the modder with no one to try his work at all.
Just pirate it.
an unnecessary move from valve, i wonder if bethesda had anything to do with it?
This is a terrible idea. Even if Valve’s intentions are right, this will end up like Steam Early Access, a lot of broken overpriced junk. Donation is much better idea. First devs used to milk people through DLCs made by 2 or 3 devs within few hours.
Now they’ll just take their 75% cut through mods that are fixing their broken/unfinished/feature less games and they won’t even have to do anything. Basically, this system is rewarding devs for releasing broken games. Not to mention stolen mods from Nexus or the ones that you’ve already payed for and now will no longer be compatible after devs decide to update their game.
Some people will say “then don’t buy it and use Nexus” but the thing is, there are already people who have jumped from Nexus to Steam workshop to earn some cash. This is the first time when I signed a petition.
all they need to do is add a donation button and let modders have at least 50% of the damn thing.
doubt with 25% to modders only they have any right intentions. i mean seriously. they are already getting a share for selling the game what more do they want.
Exactly. In fact donation should be only option. If there are other options then most will use it for money by stealing other people’s ideas. Devs will also get money in the process. Everything seems far fetched then soon it becomes real. It’ll just become a new tradition if not controlled early. Look at Early Access, Microtransaction, DLCs, Season Passes and so on.
Blasphemy…you dare raise your voice before of almighty GabeN.
STEAM is life. Paid mod FTW
Are you trolling/being sarcastic ? coz I really hope you are
he is like Hodor but for steam.
Nope. I do always thought that modders deserved being paid for its efforts.tough I find that people’s over price will hurt steam intestine.
yeap since Steam gets 75% of what they pay its all good haha
I highly doubt that
highly doubt what ? If you meant steam getting 75% of the sale then you didn’t read the article —__—
75% is ridiculous high. Can’t be
Dude, READ the article
Ok. Still unbelievable.
It’s true. They get 75% cut. Read workshop page bro.
Ha ha…they are dumb agreeing it so
Valve can suck it.
Nexus is the best, they are one of the few sites to gain an exception from my addblock.
valve games have always been the only ones i haven’t pirated.
that is now done.
Don’t forget that Bethesda is in on this as well. This isn’t all Valves doing nor are they the only one other than the modder making money off this. Apparently the game and DLC wasn’t enough for Bethesda…now they want modders money as well.
No reasons here, just hating.
There are no reasons if you choose not to see them.
WooOh that was cool line, unexpectedly I said it.
How could Valve have let this happen at all? Did they not see what kind of shitstorm they would be courting just on launching the initiative alone? Legal ramifications? Loss of goodwill from consumers… with undeserved bile for modders?…
This is a catastrophe. There’s really no kind way of putting it. Sure, Bethesda seems to have “let” themselves be the poster child for this, but what happens when a group like Marvel comes up and says that their work has been stolen simply because a modder had fun throwing Spidey into Skyrim OR worse said modder CHARGED for the privilege of having said character in the first place? Where does that leave the consumer?
This is already soiling Valve’s (and STEAM’s) name. Agreed modders should be paid for their work, but from donations, not arbitrary paywalls that cannot be changed once set. Especially when large chunks of such sales go to other parties first. The potential… nay the abuse of this system is already underway for sure.
hats
This is such a turn off! If this goes through and mods will have a paywall then I’m done with gaming.
R.I.P steam
Mods are popular because they are free. I wouldn’t mind donating for a total conversion mod like skywind but buy them? That is ridiculous. We can show how we like this move, don’t give a single penny for mods in steam workshop.
on a positive note, more people will turn into Donating just to prove Steam wrong. hopefully steam add a damn donation button and make it like at least 50% for modders. also if there was any doubt Skywind would see the light of the day now it is gone.
steam removed a link a modder put for donations from what i heard they force devs to monetize and you cant get money until you reached 400$ Its crap.
You people say “donate” yet you never have…
If modders do it for money they can drop it and find a real job. I do not use mods often but I have rewarded many times people that spend their time to offer something to the community for free.
So now creating objects, characters and animations is not a real job.
Cool, video game creators don’t have real jobs, so I guess they need to quick what they are doing and go work in the cotton fields.
Tell that to all the youtubers making money.
Also I guess people who make video games don’t have a real job, since they do what many modders do, create models , animations, textures, audio files.
Guess they may just pack up and become a doctor.
Valve should have just added a donation button to a mod page so that people can choose to donate to good mods instead of having to pay.
Shame on Bathesda as well. As if selling millions of copies every year because of mods and letting modders fix their games wasn’t enough already that they decided to support this crap.
Valve 30%, Bethesda 45% Uploader 25%. Valve always takes 30% Bethesda decided the rest.
love your avatar
Does valve then give 50% of proceeds to bethesda….?
I feel like there’s some legal issue in and of itself for further profiting off of someone’s product like that.
It’s unknown how much devs take the cut but 25% money goes to modder, rest of 75% is split between Valve and Devs.
And that’s not even the worst part. Some people are defending this “but but but mods deserve it”. We said the exact same thing about Early Access and “innovative indie devs” but let’s be honest here. Most of the stuff on Early Access is junk. People abused that service and apart from 2 or 3 games, the real “talent” newer showed up. This service will also be abused to death and there will be crap everywhere. People are also comparing this with DOTA 2 and Unreal Tournament which is a terrible comparison. Those games are Free games where you spend money on cosmetics. As you’ve said, there is NO reason for devs to take extra money after we’ve paid for that non-free-to-play game. Want to pay modders? Allow us to donate.
Charging for mods is the new “Early Access”. First it was DLC, then it was Early Access, now it pay-per-mod.
Damn, I always perceived mod-makers as some kind of underground priesthood in gaming world. Not, you know, dark and evil but good natured one.
And FilthyCasual’s speech just reinforced my belief.
The worst issue I am seeing right now is people releasing fake version numbers of someone else’s mod just to capitalize on Valve’s horrible idea.
EX:
The modder releases a mod ver 1.2, some loser releases the same exact file as version 1.3 and people pay the loser money because they want the “newer version”
This whole thing was a bad idea. I hope they disable it.
At one hand you got mods like underhell turning into actual games and actually getting serious work done on them for a price, on the other hand this will destroy modding in general since it will shift the focus on paid mods so sites like nexus will have no contet or crappy content or will go under.
Buy postal 2 paradise lost dlc instead, modders getting together with devs putting their mods in and making a full scale expansion…also you can kill tim schafer!!
This is how it should work, LARGE packs not tiny crap here and there that may or may not work due to conflicts with other mods or may or may not be complete compared to the mod version due to some animations/ textures being made by some other modder who doesnt agree with the policy valve uses.
Also ex maxis dev makes city ckylines mods and gets paid through patreon that is MUCH better.
DON’T SUPPORT STEAM GUYS… STEAM START TO BE THE NEW EA. Don’t forget that you the players are the power of steam. Pretty sure valve is going to announce Half-Life 3 or another game (Source 2) that support mods and they know what modders do (HL2 mods) and what they are going to do with the new game so it’s profitable for theme to do this BS to steal and milk money from modders.
They’re not stealing money from modders, making your mod cost money is a choice you as the modder make. Theft will be massive though, and it will be modders stealing from other modders as you’ve seen here. People are going to repackage other people’s work with some of their own or even just take other people’s work and see if they can get away with selling it. If Valve holds on to this feature, that is. Hopefully they won’t.
Personally I have disliked Steam since I was forced to install it for HL2+CSS and I’m ashamed of the PC gaming scene every time people make excuses for Valve’s terrible business decisions. “It’s okay when Valve does it” seems to be the general principle. If Early Access and Paid Mods lead to Valve losing some of that undeserved consumer trust that would be great.
OK, nobody here said its ok what valve is doing, did you read the comments?
But I dont agree with these stupid comments about how valve is evil because this. Without valve there will be not PC gaming except for mobas.
But haters will find reasons to hate, I guess.
Yes there were NO PC gaming before Valve!
The world ends now because Steam is testing how it goes when modders can charge for their mods. PSN still locks regions but Sony still selling millions through its digital store.
The thing here that we are not at PSN and we don’t want steam to be Sony or something else we like valve & we want steam to be what we know years ago.
Valve is far worse than EA could ever get. Valve never released any information about how much profit or sales they made, many console games that could have PC ports never get that in the past. And they did it only to get dominant position.
backlash is great. this was an incredibly stupid idea for steam. allow a donate option for modders. not this easily exploitable crap
Is this true? If it is then mods are not going to make anyone happy.
http://imgclick.net/z6t0n4qm7wrj/Valve_mods_buy_sell_problem.png.html
Easy way to reward modders: optional in-steam “donate” button. Not “buy this third-party DLC or GTFO” one. Some modders deserve to be rewarded, but that must be a decision for the player to do so, when he can and what amount he feels comfortable with. Putting it mandatory minimal price (specially with 75% of it robbed) it’s ludicrous. In any case, it’s a way to get money and it’s inevitable that some people will see this as an opportunity to take someone else work and make it it’s own (fraud). But this current system turns that thing up to eleven.
Sad to see modders VS players thing appearing… modding is one of those things that incentives a sharing and mutual respect type of behavior. Having an optional easy way to donate (optionally as an extra “thank you”), would be the nicest way to easily support their work. Putting them as mandatory is wrong and dumb by Valve. But a system that gives some profit to the game developers is the only way their executives will tolerate having mods for their games… it’s basically DLC in their view that they don’t control (they are the ones that want to bank money on official DLC, not modders). Steam solution is probably the middle-way for some scum greedy publishers and modders to co-exist. And they failed severely to achieve that from the player point of view (and some modders too).
Sad how greediness/business can infest and contribute to destroy communities.
Ok, explain something to me: Do you have to pay for every mod in the Steamworkshop now? Or is it just that mod creators can charge for their work?
If all the mods are for pay now, which means that there can’t be free mods in the steam workshop, then you are right. It’s is a terrible practice because people will have to pay to test mods, and this could lead to a lot of oportunists stealing someone else work, and I agree that Valve should drop it.
BUT, if Valve is just giving the option for mod creators to charge for their work, then all this complaint is stupid and should not be aimed at Valve, but at the mod creators who want to charge for their work. In which case they are totally free not to invest their hard work and time in making a mod nobody wants to pay for.
In any case, vote with your wallet and don’t pay for anything (don’t pirate it either). Sometimes people complain about the most stupid things…
You must have not read the “Valve gets 75% of the sales” part. That there shows why they really put such “option.”
Sorry for the late answer.
If they allowed for donations instead of putting a price tag, isn’t there the same risk? People stealing someone elses work an asking for donations?
We seem to be blaming Valve and Bethesda for something terrible, when the ‘bad guys’ in the end could be the modders themselves, no longer releasing their work for free. The solution is in the peoples hands. As users don’t buy mods, and as modders don’t charge for them. Simple has that.
I saw somebody who said the developers of SKSE could put an end to this by taking SKSE offline, since many Skyrim mods require it. However I doubt that would be feasible since anyone in possession of the files could just upload them somewhere else.
it is robbery. i mean modders can make money out of their mods, they deserve it but steam and devs ? hell no. why ? your game’s UI is broken and some modder fixes it and steam & devs takes the big share ?
F rating for customer service ? this make it an H. oh i had a problem with my purchase, i made a ticket on april’s 3rd, they replied to me on april’s 20th. i just replied a big F’ you to that email.
Valve doesn’t get money.
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=72850
The owner of the original content defines the how the money is split and also get’s the money. In this case Bethesda gets 75% because Bethesda is greedy, and Valve? Valve get hate and their small 2-3% transaction fee.
Please correct your article and help to stop spreading that Valve would charge 75%
Better go into my currently Modded Skyrim and add up my tab, King Gabbin gotta get his dues.
OK, the same stupid youtube thing all the way again, first of all, so far we have receiving a LOT OF MODS from modders without them being paid, they do it because fun or learning, why Valve or anyone else think this pay thing will encourage modder to work more or better?
I like Steam and Valve but If I want to support the modder I will be donating direct to the him/her, valve and the game company already received their money when I bought the game.
And white coffin for all those who think Bethesda isnt getting nothing from this.
Its a shame that totalbiscuit hides behind a utube channel with comments disabled, and a twitter acount when he just speak to himself. This is a worth topic to discuss but disqus and twitter sucks.
having a comment section doesn’t mean TB is obligated to debate his videos, of course he can disable them, would you have time to answer hundreds of people everyday, 90% consisting entirely of abuse with no rational position being advocated.
Don’t know exactly how big TB audience is but it’s way beyond personal interaction, people who get 5000+ tweets a day won’t answer them directly.
been thinking for a while that having comment threads might not have been a great development, because they seem now to be seen as an entitlement and expectation, even seen people go as far as suggesting that disabling comments, was infringing on their ‘freedom of speech’ rights.
that was my first time to thumbs down one of his videos. jim’s video and boogie’s video about paid mods are better
I cant wait for GOG to finish their open platform for digital games im done with steam if GOG does it right
Actually, here is what Bethesda had to say about this whole thing:
“Thank you so very much for contacting us here at Bethesda Technical Support. My name is Joshua, the Reaper of the Gear, and it’ll be my pleasure to assist you in this matter. I definitely understand how frustrating this must be especially given the monetization for the mods through the Steam Workshop. So, let’s see what we can do here!
As it turns out, the 75% amount that you mentioned does not come to us, rather it goes directly to Steam, with the author of the modification earning the remaining 25%. We do not receive any of the proceeds from the sale of a modification.”
I think you should post it here or make it an article so people would know
Valve made their stock exchange market, with background, icons and other crap some time ago. Isn’t it pretty late for that?
Why make DLCs when we can get “passionate” people to make them, give them 25% of profits and sit and watch how they’re blamed when something doesn’t work properly.
And these known modders think they’re the big prize, when they’re just the bait Valve is using to lure the rest of modders and make them accept the 25% revenue and lose control of their creations.
Shame on Valve and Bethesda, this is the sketchiest move I’ve ever seen.
Pirates win again.
lol pc master race has been damned and doomed…
not sure if this idea is actually feasible in practical terms, but otherwise I have no concerns, modders could have charged anyway, no reason why they’d all change, I have more issues about how a modder can sell work mostly comprised of assets from existing products they have no rights to.
Out of 25~30% money left after STEAM / Valve took from Modder. Modder will have to pay 30% of their income to USA tax department.
Let just say you have sold a 10$ mod, 7$ goes to Valve, 0.9$ will go to US tax and 2.1 goes to you.
oh … apply to those who stay outside of US too, STEAM will help you pay tax.
I will bet with you guys … Fat Gabe just hired a bunch of economic “genius”. Throw them into a sealed room and force them to think 20 hours per day on how to make MORE money than what they are currently earning. Seriously, this is a f’ing d*ck move from fat gabe.
The games published by valve are good games and good developers deserve their money, rest of valve just mostly sucks.
can you inmagine the legal ramifications if two mods are similar at all?they will be suing each other left and right once there is money involved.keep it simple and free.all i can say is
copyright infringement.and yes it will hurt modding because of legal ramifications.