The Inner Circle – a collection of Xbox One gamers who hunt down the latest and greatest, news, interviews & rumors on the xbox one platform – featured in their latest podcast Brad Wardell who shared some really interesting information about DirectX 12 and its capabilities.
According to Wardell, DX12 is able to handle 600K draw calls. In contrast, DX9 is able to push only 6K draw calls so that’s a huge increase. However, Wardell did not reveal the ‘draw calls’ limit of DX11, therefore we cannot compare the latest released API with the new upcoming one.
Moreover, Wardell claimed that DX12 can offer up to 600% better performance on AMD cards than DX11. This claim is based on Anandtech’s recent benchmarks, in which Oxide’s Star Swarm Tech Demo ran with 7fps via DX11 on a Raden R9 290X and with 43fps via DX12. For comparison purposes, the tech demo ran with 41fps via Mantle, proving that DX12 may actually be faster than AMD’s own low-level API.
Wardell talked about lots of things during this podcast, so we strongly suggest listening to it.
Here is a summary provided by NeoGAF‘s member ‘Livelife’
-Anandtech AMD cards 7fps to 43fps running Nitrous engine DX12 engine.
-600% performance increase on AMD cards running full DX12 game engine.
-CPU cores n their performance more important in the future games .
-Directx 12 on Xbox Nov.
-Directx 12 runs better than Mantle on AMD cards.
-Dx9 uses max 6000 draw calls vs 600,000 on dx12.
-Naysayers are eating crow!
-“Marketing chose 40% increase slogan as real gains were too unbelievable for the masses to digest”
-limitless light sources in games.
-1000+ characters AI characters on screen.
-toy story/ lord of the rings graphics no deffered rendering.
-future Xbox cpu bound exclusives DX12 games to have these gains however dx12 games initially 30% gains as they transition from Dx11 to full new dx12 game engines using esram etc
-Not so much games for cross platform games.
-Fable Legends Dx12 game
-AMD/MS has mega DX12 news at GDC.
-Stardock developed Starswarm dx12 demo in 2 months. Starswarm would have similar performance gains on Xbox one i.e 600%. They have something major at GDC in the Microsoft booth.
-Stardock are developing DX12 game engine “Nitrous”. Star Control game will make sense console. They will license it to 3rd parties in future after they release 2 games on Nitrous engine.
-Phil Spencer managing expectations, as in November with DX12 on Xbox….. the games released then wont look much different then until the new DX 12 game engines.
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
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DX12 is going to be amazing
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8962/the-directx-12-performance-preview-amd-nvidia-star-swarm/5
Wow, DX11 really sucks…
not,it jus that Dx12 is amazing 😀
Ye. 😛 I still remember the huge difference between 7/8 to 9. I wonder if its really the same kind here.
Will see.
Bear in mind that these improvements can only be seen in CPU-Limited scenarios(MMO etc).
How About Nvidia Cards ???
Check out the link Primey posted above ^^
Or below? How does Disqus order its threads?
Here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8962/the-directx-12-performance-preview-amd-nvidia-star-swarm/5
Probably A LOT more
Not for me, I already own it.
*laughs at 50% slower 290X owners*
Direct X 11 came out in 2009 (rolls eyes)
“Directx 12 runs better than Mantle on AMD cards.
Dx9 uses max 6000 draw calls vs 600,000 on dx12.”
COOL STORY, but can you prove it? Like say someone who really needs it, someone known as EBOLASOFT could use that already and fix their crap.
Also i hope this helps xbone a bit, it will piss off the sony fanboys.
sadly as anandtech wrote “star swarn” is the best possible result and may not be transfered into real life (games) that means we may not get all of those perfromance boosts in video games.
Correct, but developers should strive to achieve that level op optimization and MS has quite extensive documentation to help them achieve it.
Poor $0N¥ PAUPERS are going to cry even harder now that the gap between PC and consoles is going to grow even larger than it already is.
The PauperStation Poor will likely be the last moderately succesful thing $0N¥ ever releases before they go under.
dying light on sp4 runs UNDER the lowest pc settings, bf hardline is still 900p, nothing changed consoles are still weak.
Yep, $0N¥ PauperStation alright. I always laugh hard at those shills like coolgamer, John Doe or YAFOW with his 70+ dummy accounts to upvote himself. They’re fighting a losing battle for a dying company.
MANTLE is and will be under continuous development. V2 should support HSA for instance. The only way to compare would be some DX12/MANTLE benchmark which we don’t have atm! Also the only reason why we have DX12 under development is because of MANTLE! So regardless of which one is faster, MANTLE started this pursuit, which we should not forget!
Mantle is dead. It’s being integrated into GLnext.
And DX12 was already in development for quite some time when Mantle launched.
GLnext should be quite awesome i expect Ps4 to get a boost in certain areas.
lol no. MS didn’t s**t their pants and start coding DX12 because AMD brought out Mantle. This total re-write has to have been in development for a LONG time. It’s just that AMD got their news out first, which may have prompted MS to release information. But to say we only have DX12 because of Mantle is laughable.
Nvidia confirmed they have been working with Microsoft on DX12 for at least 4 years: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/
“Our work with Microsoft on DirectX 12 began more than four years ago with discussions about reducing resource overhead. For the past year, NVIDIA has been working closely with the DirectX team to deliver a working design and implementation of DX12 at GDC. – See more at: http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/#sthash.6GBVzvpw.dpuf“
Nothing better than seeing meltdown of Sony fanboys. Lol.
my bet is on the order.
The order will flop because Sony fans dont like 800p -24fps games.
but they did it for more filmic experience :p
The Boarder 1886. Pre-order now I receive more QTE events and an extra special *boarder mode for a truly filmic experience.
*Boarder mode only for 70″ TV’s and larger.
:))
lol
wow, can’t believe I didn’t think of that
onlysp has some “gameplay” go watch it.
Feels like a david cage game.
Do you love hand holding?
Does the thought of you hardly playing the game sound good to you?
Do you enjoy having an extremely linear level designs and an extremely linear plot line?
Do you love having no freedom to explore?
Does the thought of CONSTANTLY having to do QTEs for even the most SIMPLE AND MEANINGLESS things sound good to you?
Did you enjoy pressing F to show respect?
If so, I suggest you purchase tickets to watch The Order 1886.
WARNING Choppy frame rate the repeatably drops may cause motion sickness
:)) yeah i watched the same thing from eurogamer and videogamer too
They love em if they only appear on PS platforms
If the order was exlusive to xbone they wouldnt give a damn, or trash it till the end of time. just like titanfail and sunset overhype as they call them.
Let me say one simple thing.
IF THIS GAME WAS EXLUSIVE ON XBONE, THEY WOULDNT GIVE A DAMN OR BASH IT TO HIGH HEAVEN.
Just like sunset overhype and titanfail.
The sony fanboys are quite insecure.
My god! So many dislikes on that video. That must be truly a wonderful game, if so many people are ready to selflessly defend it.
Less than a month till GDC. DX 12 and GLNext should have some demos. Wardell has been in PC development longer than most console fanboys have been alive so he knows his sh*t. Interesting results, soon.
It won’t. They will just move onto exclusives, stick their fingers in their ears and scream “The Order! Bloodborne! Uncharted!”. Such is the nature of the Sony peasant that they must change the goalposts.
Shame DX and Hololense is associated with the peasantbone because they look extremely interesting and the Anandtech DX12 benchmarks are tantalizing. Remember, this is without AMD or Nvidia drivers or optimization (Worth noting when comparing to Mantle which has driver support).
Odd, I get 72fps average in that benchmark using DX11 on extreme.
I think they updated the benchmark to have more objects on screen, to really stress Dx11. Back when nvidia released 337.50, the 780ti beat the r9 290x on mantle itself which raised eyebrows everywhere.
I still have the benchmarks from my FX-8350 and R9 280, the thing dropped into the single figures sometimes when using Mantle with a 49FPS average.
Allow me to clarify, the update must be behind closed doors. Since even the 349.x and 15.2 drivers aren’t public yet.
congrats! you’ve noticed microsoft are lying shills!
They may not be. The Star Swarm update and the drivers are just behind closed doors. If you see carefully they used 15.2 Catalyst and 349.x GeForce drivers, both of which aren’t available yet. I think nvidia’s next driver release will be Tuesday with evolve. Hopefully its the 349 branch with DirectX12 support.
Off topic, won’t be using Win10 just yet, for some reason Watch_Dogs doesn’t launch. (Yes I like that game, pls don’t judge me).
Back to Dualshillers, peasant
hahaahahahah The sony fanboys are the most insecure ever.
Have you seen the new pics of uncharted 4? It looks a bit better than tomb raider on pc at best
Sony shills, go back to your shitstation 4.
You and GabeN with jizz on his mouth should spoon together.
Ummm DX 12 won’t help out the Xbone.MS needs to give up and just worry about Pc games.
Star Swarm used over 100K draw calls and worked (130fps) fine with a non-optimized game engine. Not sure how much proof you need…
An actual game from AAA devs.
He doesn’t work for AMD, Nvidia or Microsoft so there’s nothing in it for him to lie about the speeds. Whether he’s correct or not, I don’t know, but I take what he says as what he believes. Can’t wait.
All i am saying is we got false info from neogaf before.
The anandtech preview actually shows the opposite, mantle performs marginally better in most scenarios on the amd hardware tested.
Xbox One will only use up to 50,000 drawcalls; http://gamingtheater.net/stardock-ceo-xbox-ones-crummy-bandwidth-affecting-number-draw-calls/2015/
600,000 is whatever hardwares capable on PC. This is why Xbox One DX12 won’t see much a big increase.
CPU cores more important in future games? Isn’t that the reason we have DX12 etc coming out? To avoid CPU dependency?
They are providing ways to improve the weak CPU of consoles, that has 8 cores but at laughable frequency…..
DX will not improve xbox performance almost at all as they’re already using low level API for more than decade on consoles!
Also Microsoft and Sony set 100W limit of TDP and at that time there was not better SoC that could within this range get better game performance. And finally as most computing can be multithreaded and therefor run on GPU, you don’t need powerful CPU anyway!
Not entirely true. For most multiplats it will because most of them now simply use the DX11 path because they don’t have the time to optimize for the lower level path. DX12 will yield much higher performance over the DX12 path.
But the gap between PC and consoles will grow so much larger now because we already have 5+ TFLOPS GPUs and those consoles are crap in comparison.
…over the DX11 path.
It has been proven is several reviews that both PS4 and XOne are CPU limited….
And it’s proved that MANTLE is more helpful on weak CPUs, I think it’s going to be the same With DX12 at first, then when the developers learn how to use it at 100% it will be the time for the real boost
It’s not about weak CPUs it’s about being CPU bound, this could apply to Intel CPUs with SLI or AMD CPUs CF/SLI.
http://wccftech.com/phil-spencer-directx-12-massive-change-xbox-expect-1st-party-studios/
Here’s the head of the XBox department saying that it’s not going to be a huge change for Xbox1. So don’t get your hopes up too much. There’ll probably be some improvements, but I doubt it’ll be of much significance.
Does it? because the perfomance is pretty pathetic, if it does, then why dont they put that api on pc?
“DX11 is crap sluggish piece of crap from the dark ages.”
So you dont remember dx10 or dx9 eh?
with something we havent used yet? Dont get excited, dont get excied.dont get excited.
Frequency means little. IPC is what matters. If the cores are better utilized IPC increases. Everyone wins.
And that “dependency” is avoided by better usage of the cores available in the way they are able to “talk” to the GPU. Have a look – http://www.littletinyfrogs.com/article/460524/DirectX_11_vs_DirectX_12_oversimplified
That link’s a nice write up. Thanks
If you got games outhere that utilize only 3 cpu cores, it is clear we need more cpu utilization.
If Arma 3 switched to DX12 renderer and adopted sup pixel rendering techniques from VBS I would be VERY happy.
if shadow warrior released the godamn patch that uses dx11 instead of dx9 i would be very happy as well.
600K, omg when MANTLE started (1.5 year ago) the goal was 100K, amazing!
“First Dual Core 2008”? LOL, no mate we where using quad-cores by then, people where using dual cores in 2006 to 2007 for Crysis. Who is this guy, he doesn’t even know his dates.
I hope everything is true.
If you are hoping that…you need to re-build your hopes!
Wait, I was told that DX12 cards aren’t even on the market yet.
Its already in your computer. Unless your computer is old.
Some current cards are DX12 compatible but won’t be totally feature compatible. There are NO cards on the market that will have ALL DX12 features. But the ones out now will get this boost and more.
”The Inner Circle – a collection of Xbox One gamers who hunt down the latest and greatest, news, interviews & rumors on the xbox one platform”
Could these bunch on manchilds be any more pathetic xD
Well what do you expect from console peasants.
At the very least they got good PC info
When dudebros have their own geek think tank, how are pc gamers the nerds?
WW III can’t come soon enough.
What’s funnier is you got the butthurt Sony shill to upvote you with his sock accounts while not understanding that the PS4 is also pathetic.
Oh console manchildren, will they ever learn
I edited it, let’s see if it drops from 37 xD
i want DX 12 now!!!
All i hear from Microsoft is just Xbox this Xbox that. They even shove Xbox down your throat on Windows 10 announcement. They have been trying since xbox. When will they stop with their sh**ty hardware and forced PC gaming to their closed wall garden?
Shots Fired!!!
GTX 680 ready for DX 12
Go’s all the way back to the 400 series of GPU’s for Nvidia. All Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell will support DX12, while AMD will support DX12 on their GCN cards, which means the 7000 series and up.
Who needs to wait for DX12? I’m enjoying Mantle right now! 😀
nobody cares about Mantle anymore…. Just games under EA this year until DX12 comes out since EA dev’s are all under AMD’s paycheck to use Mantle..
Face it AMD had a great PR stunt to sell their CPU/GPU hardware and now finally the 300 series is on the way and will fully support DX12. And keep in mind the only game that truly uses Mantle the right way is Civ BE and well that game is kinda lame .
DX 12 even will solve the conflict in Ucrania and rescue the nigerian girls from the Boko haram terrorist… What else…
And finally it will bring world peace!
I heard it can cure cancer too.
What about threaded CPUs ? for example 1 core 2 threads old pentium CPUs and 2 cores 4 threads i3 CPUs ? can you still count that them as 2 cores and 4 cores ?
Double post for assurance XD
Haven’t Mantle had the same promise(not to mention the same benchmark tool) and have yet to deliver that kind of high performance increase ?
I think there’s irony in XBox One fans searching down the latest news on graphics that the Xb1 can never produce.
And in all the other benchmarks, Mantle was ahead.
DX12 is the best, hence proved.
Great to see some evidence, Now I’m looking forward to Windows 10 and DX12 even more.
Same here I like to see what others have to say about DX12 other then what M$ says it will do. So yes things are looking up for PC gamer’s.
PC beggars and Sony shills shall weep when Directx12 is released and we finally get Lord of the Rings level graphics on our supreme console.
580p 12fps ? lol can’t even handel battlefield more than 720p
pc beggars?
Hmmm, so tell me how many exlusives does xbone actually have?
You already have close to the metal access you moron, DX12 will be A LOT more beneficial for PC’s.
When Steam for the xbox one comes out, us console kings will have Ultra high definition graphics streamed to our consoles with mod support and no latency. Eat it sony shills and PC beggars.
Your gimmick is s**t
Except that the consoles have higher latency than PC because of controller to TV and any kind of network streaming will add latency. Go learn something, Microsoft control your console, something you can never get away from.
Enjoy your XBox Live outages.
Not only your console remains utterly weak but you dont even have any exlusives.
Keep dreaming n??b.
DX 12 is an improvment of Mantle API,its logical since Mantle was first on the table and M$$$ are attracted by the idea of some kind of low level API.
Of course the new cards will gonna insane on DX12,also hope the devs will provide us great games.
So keep it up M$ and give us the API we need for our beloved powerful graphic cards. 😉
You need to update your information.
In the benchmark Mantle defeeat DX12, and you can run it with WIn 7
He’s keeping our expectations in check, AMD have said differently and so has Brad Wardell
So AMD cards will support DX12? Can someone explain to me what a dev reason to use Mantle? Or better yet, AMDs reason for making it?
And the fact that AMD came out and said there will be no DX12, no long after that AMD came out with Mantle, then Microsoft came out with DX12. :p
yes but DX12 has been in the works for over 4 years man. I mean a API that can be used on femi aka a GTX470 card all the way to cards out now is not something you get almost done from when Mantle was announced. And I was told that this Tue 2/10/15 we have a high chance to will see DX12 drivers as well as DX12 drivers in the new AMD cat drivers soon. I think all M$ is really waiting for now is to get Win10 done since they need a trump card to make people have a reason to get Win10
Just think Mantle only on AMD hardware. D3D12 on AMD, Intel, Nvidia, Qual, various soc’s hardware for tablet’s/phones ect ect.
I am pretty sure it all adds up as AMD knew of D3D12 and needed a hype magnet to get some of the market share. Not to mention Rory was still CEO at the time and he did a lot of crazy BS to try to gain Market Share.
Moral of the story? Ubisoft’s excuse is Ubisoft in and of itself.
Chew on that!
Dx12 is only improving the cpu draw calls, not the performances of the gpu. This test was build to act as a cpu bottleneck
This just goes to prove that Microsoft was collaborating with Nvidia and Intel to artificially gimp AMD performance.
compared to what we got now thats a small diffirence
its only prove that intel would benefit greatly superior than any AMD FX 8 cores…
but in developers stand point they would done it long ago of improving fps but the hardware setup is different on consumers setup based on what CPU and GPU..The AMD cpus are not very good in doing all the draw calls beyond what 8 million of i7 and i5 has the specs of 8 million calls requests in the API tweak while the kernel won’t crash like AMD prone to do so evidently more often it causes the memory to out-sequence between thread and gpu thread since gpus are to fast for AMD cpu’s quad cores and single threading pass is not like Intel the way they do its passes..so in APU’s HSA idea of Mantle would transfer all the calls directly itself with GPU space between memory and system memory without the CPU doing any calls…would that work ??? maybe but all that talk is very confusing for my understanding on how would AMD approach that depending heavily on GPU cores do textures and sending and requesting the same time while its CPU cores stay idle since its only limited 2 million calls at a time since its cache system from lv1 and lv3 are not very well built to do what intel design to do for..of each thread can handle 1 or 2 million each of total of 18 million calls of any i7 can peak its 100% cpu usage while thats a lot what Intel was made for on AMD cpus 100% cpu usage is very bad since the all 8 cores within modular design that pairing each module with 2 cores with sharing lv2 cache while each core has its owned lv1 but they can’t process on all 8 same time due to its module design of sharing only lv3 cache but not lv2 or lv1 like Intel its unified cache coherence of sharing all across 8 threads..so their you have it..DX12 is still need Mantel for AMD cpu’s while Intel will get more boost on their high end i7 and they can prove it on the final product but would it still convince PC game developers …….No but if its Apple game developers they would say yes…since Apple choose only Intel for this type of Job so no issue on Hardware constrains decision making…like a console game developers..
Can do this? yep it always could ,since the issue is the default timer msi/x use (message signal interrupt) without this nothing else Mather much a.and lets say Ms fix this .another bottleneck will arise (that is what I experienced while playing neverwinter on pc)overheating.(pc)also of another problem .ms have a hard time sticking to 65 Ms (the memory limit )atvtime in the system they set things to 50ms (ya you can be sure it cause issue .given the max memory can go is 64ms (average) and at other time in the pc ,the system use 250ms or even 400ms yep you you guessed it .ms need to stick to 65ms everywhere.we ll see how they do in window 10.i highly doubt Ms did differently with Xbox one, given they didn’t want to make one at firstvinvthevfirst place.Ms likely use off the shelf os way
MS never gave out any numbers for Xone.I seriously doubt it will get much gains.Pc folks are going to benefit the most.
Doesn’t anyone noticed that 600% of 6000 equals 36000 ._. So 600000 of 6000 equals 10000% .-. or am I brain afk and missed something? 😀