Written by Metal Messiah
TechPowerUp has just posted a very interesting article. I will try to keep this short and simple though. According to TPU’s article it looks like AMD’s next-gen ZEN3 CPUs won’t be backwards-compatible with the older 400-series, as well as the 300-series of Motherboard chipsets.
This is a bummer, since older Motherboards won’t be compatible with the new upcoming ZEN 3 4000 series of processors, which provides very little room for upgrade. The 4’th Gen ZEN 3 processors will only work on the AMD 500-series (or later) chipsets, the X570 and B550 Motherboards.
Owners of the existing 500-series motherboards will have to update their motherboard’s BIOS to enable support for these new Ryzen 4000 processors.
Honestly speaking, I’m a bit shocked with this move from AMD. I was hoping the company will support older Gen Motherboards, giving ‘backwards compatibility’ to end users in the process as well. But it seems this is not the case.
Those gamers who bought premium ‘X470’ motherboard chipsets for example were actually hoping for a compatibility with the next-gen upcoming ZEN CPUs as well, but now it seems they won’t be able to use these processors, should they plan to upgrade. As of now, only the B550 chipset is available, but expect more high-end chipsets when the launch dates come closer. The AMD B550 is a new mid-range chipset by AMD.
According to TPU’s article, B550 is a low-power silicon chipset, having similar 5-7 W TDP as the older 400-series chipset, and it’s likely that the chipset is from ASMedia.
The AMD B550 chipset currently only supports the 3rd generation Ryzen “Matisse” processors. Older Ryzen 2000 series CPUs, first gen Ryzen 1000 processors are not supported. The same applies for Athlon 200, “Picasso” APUs, and the Ryzen 3000G series (with integrated Radeon VEGA graphics).
According to AMD, the company says that it ran into some ROM size limitations, when trying to push the AGESA microcode for all the older CPUs. As per AMD, the flash memory chips that store the BIOS have capacity limitations, and not all AM4-based motherboards feature dual-BIOS chip design (mostly found on the more expensive and high-end boards). Good news is that the chipset will support the upcoming “ZEN 3” microarchitecture CPUs.
The Ryzen 4000 series family would be the last generation of processors to support the AM4 socket because with Ryzen 5000 series, ZEN4 architecture will be used which will require a new socket as well as a new chipset.
So there you have it. This seems to be a strange move made by AMD in my opinion. I was hoping for more longevity of the AM4 platform though. More details on this news can be found here.
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so the AM4 socket will also be going to get obsolete soon ?
okay..
The chipset number, zen generation numbers, and the X000 series CPU nomenclature is getting a bit confusing.
It’s very far from as clear-cut as you make it sound here with your “1000, 2000, 3000, 4000”. Do you not realize that, or are you for some reason deliberately downplaying the potential for confusion AMD have created?
The Ryzen 3 1200 has a Zen (1000-series) and a Zen + (2000-series) version.
The Ryzen 5 1600 also has a Zen (1000-series) and a Zen + (2000-series) version.
The Ryzen 3 2200G and Ryzen 5 2400G are Zen (1000-series) not Zen + (2000-series) parts.
The Ryzen 3 3200G and Ryzen 5 3400G are Zen + (2000-series) not Zen 2 (3000-series) parts.
*I* don’t personally find any of this difficult to comprehend (aside from why AMD would choose such a naming scheme), but plenty of non-enthusiast shoppers understandably would, and you either don’t comprehend it yourself or don’t comprehend the real meaning of “no confusion at all actually”…
You’re an idiot or a troll or both.
I offered you a detailed reply. You were unable or unwilling to engage with its substance. These aren’t opinions. They are facts. AMD muddled their naming scheme, in such a way that makes it confusing which CPUs are 14nm, which are 12nm, and (going forward) which are 7nm parts. I’m only bothering to reply to you yet again in the hope that other people who come across this useless exchange between us might take something from it. You’re clearly not learning anything.
I don’t think you understand my point. The next gen 4000 series is named as 4’th generation but it is based on ZEN3.
If it would have been ZEN4, then there is little chance for confusion. In the same manner the ryzen 3000 series are based on Zen2. should have been called as zen3 instead.
so they break their promise? ok, bye.
mobo maker need to make money. end of story.
The AM4 platform introduced in 2017 has been able to support Ryzen 1,plus and 2-gen cpus, something that Intel would have never allowed so how did AMD break any promises? If you cannot comprehend this then begone with you…
They said it’d support up to zen 3 and now they went back on their word
LOL WTF. You can use 2 gens of Intel cpus with Z370 boards. Coffee AND Refresh. So WTF are you talking about?
LMAO, yes indeed Coffee Lake and Refresh Lake, and zero IPC gains across the stack.
Your name is fitting, you must be bored…
I always laugh when i hear people say that too oh look Intel allowed for 2 gens with the exact same IPC since 2015 oh boy call the media now
To put that in perspective 2015
Obama was president
Nintendo Switch wasn’t even out and still called the Nx
and so on.
thanks for the heads-up
One more step and AMD can have exactly that 1 chipset per CPU generation as the “evil” Intel is doing.
3 cpu gen of support is still great in my books
This.People act as if this is some kind of grand betrayal, as if AMD is a charity organisation. They are just as corporately motivated as Intel.
You do not need to be a charity organisation to be held to the standard “keep your promises, especially ones you didn’t have to make.” It’s a pretty low standard.
3?
This supports Excavator, Zen, Zen+ and Zen2 (officially).That’s 4.
We’ll see if Zen3 REALLY doesn’t work on B350/450/X370/X470
Technically true, but if anything it hurts even more that you can’t get Zen 3 because AMD pointlessly forward ported Excavator from AM3(+) to AM4, and that microcode is taking up space on the BIOS flash chip.
Excavator was never on AM3. It was only on notebook soldered motherboards. BGA smth? I forgot
Also technically true, but Excavator is really just a slightly refined version of Bulldozer, which AM3 was centered around.
Keep in mind that many boards disabled Excavator support once they added Zen 2 support also. Does a board really support 4 architectures if a given BIOS version only supports up to 3 at once?
Excavator, or better said, Bristol Ridge on AM4, is the 5 iteration of Bulldozer. It’s vastly different really, mostly efficiency wise.
Also keep in mind that getting Zen 2 to work on older chipset took a lot of work. They had to simplify the BIOS UI’s to fit the new microcode, and early BIOS updates supporting Zen 2 on 300 series boards actually caused some issues.
Compare that to Intel, who blocked Coffee Lake support on 100 and 200 series boards despite modders getting it to work anyways.
I’m still downloading games and such for my brand new build (Ryzen R9 3900X 12C/24T, Gigabyte Aorus Master X570 motherboard, Liquid cooler Fractal Design Celsius S36, RAM Kingston Hyper X 32GB 3600mhz, GPU Gigabyte Aorus RTX2080 Super OC, 1TB Crucial P1 NVMe SSD, 2TB Crucial MX500 SSD, case Phanteks Evolv X, PSU Corsair RM850X V2)…and coming from an FX8350 and GTX970 combo…this new PC is a beast. I’m so proud of it, you have no idea guys.
Need to upgrade my desk for sure now…lol
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/88f7605b60feaa7c08b79b5b67b18e8b821629e0a22d91ea0c60450278707686.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0b39e13b5adf349d87fb353d026c3e413562f83cb58da1d29a172ae02838f449.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/18c73b03e988dfcd58b11cc408f56d75494d3584bdded4285f728031260b04b4.jpg
Very nice build. You will enjoy this for years. Maybe only a GPU upgrade in a couple of years.
Thanks man, yeah I always build PC for years to come, if I want the jump to 4k and higher frame rates I’ll have to upgrade that GPU for sure.
That’s a beautiful machine. Curious about your monitor, what is it?
I’m using an old Sharp Aquos 47″ HDTV 1080p 60hz LCD (2009 model). But I’m planning to “upgrade” it soon for a LG C9 OLED 120hz 55″ 4K TV.
I’m so used to big screen that can’t use monitors anymore. The HP Omen is an option too but it is way too expensive compared with that LG TV (1400€ against 3000€+).
That TV comes with GSync or a technology similar to it If I’m not mitsaken. And image quality is incredible since I already saw it in person.
Congrats man, that build look sick.
Hope you enjoy many years of gaming.
I will mate. Thanks! 😉
Awww.
Well, I was already planning on a MOBO change next in the line somewhere in the future tbh.
Which platform do you have, AMD or INTEL ?
AMD with a B350
I’m not very familiar with the Ryzen CPUs right now. My next build will be Ryzen based and I will get familiar with the Ryzen CPUs at that point but it’s 2 years away.
I just wanted to ask what is wrong with the Ryzen CPUs currently available to you on your present mobo? Are you guys upgrading your CPU every generation? If so, why?
The current lineup of Ryzen CPUs should be plenty for gaming for years to come.
That’s actually a bad thing for who owns the first or the second gen and want to get a final upgrade before the platform dies, and well they can’t do it. First generation zen was pretty crap honestly, with second they started delivering, and third is pretty good, i expect fourth to be even better.
Because it’s faster and will probably consume and heat less?
You don’t care about that, not everyone.
Many enthusiasts are, besides that’s not the only thing, there’s performance, you put it all together it’s a good reason to want to upgrade from series 1000 or 2000 to 4000.
That’s been proven to be BS AMD is blocking new CPUs for other reasons.
Can’t remember, i read some post in a forum don’t remember if OCN guru3d or techpowerup, one of these.
But your point is that third is good. Then why not upgrade to that on your present mobo if need be?
4th will be better but there’s always something better just around the corner. 5th will be better than 4th and on and on.
For me it always comes down to the same basic question. Is what I have doing fine for gaming? Do I really need a new build or just a GPU upgrade?
Well it is good, but something better for roughly the same money isn’t bad is it? That’s the right question, but “fine” doesn’t really say much
Even my next big upgrade would be a ZEN CPU. Currently my INTEL i7 4790 CPU is more than sufficient for a decent 1080p Gaming experience.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with Ryzen though. There are gamers who are quite happy with their rigs, its just that some minor community of gamers like to upgrade each and every gen. But I think the number of people who upgrade their PCs frequently are on the lesser side, IMO..
RYZEN has been a strong contender for AMD. It has helped them gain enough Market share as well.
I don’t see any point in upgrading the CPU if its a decent performing SKU model. I always upgrade my GPU, since most of the PC games are gpu-bound these days, with the exception of select few. Some are CPU-bound as well.
But like you mentioned the current lineup of both AMD and INTEL CPUs is sufficient for a decent Gaming PC.
I think investing in a GPU sounds like a much better option, when it comes to upgrading any system, unless of course you are rocking a Dual-core CPU, lol.
Not supported didn’t mean not compatible … Thats simple, AMD just wanted to get rid of complexity providing spare CPU just to upgrade BIOS like in the past. They surely learn a lesson …
Terrible news i see no reason to get Zen 3 right now unless you NEED a new PC.
1. AM4 is a dead socket if buying new Zen 3 is it Zen 4 will require DDR5 memory and therefor will use the AM5 socket.
2. Current users can’t upgrade
3. Intel is finally bringing their whole product stack down to be more competitive soon you will be able to get a 9900K like performance for 350$ from Intel and OC that beast to 5.0-5.3ghz
4. Intel is Finally updating their architecture next year with 18% higher IPC
So overall the 3300X should show what Zen 3 will bring with a full 8 core instead of 2 4 core ccx’s. I expect Zen 3 to finally beat Intel across the board even in gaming that’s why i wanted it so badly but for now my 3700x surely isn’t holding me back what so ever even with my 144hz monitor. Thanks Amd for saving me money now i will use that money for a new nvidia GPU this year!
Yeah, I feel so bad right now. I advised a friend 6 months ago to go for AMD instead of Intel as he could upgrade whenever the new CPUs launch. Not only did I mislead him, but I probably wasted his money as well (he wanted to wait, and I told him to go for it).
Well i’d like to say that Ryzen 3000 parts would at least drop in price but the demand and rarity might make them more expensive not 100% sure.
Part of me thought Amd would do this the sad thing is LOTS of motherboards have 128MB bios chips like mine and it doesn’t mean squat cause a $60 board doesn’t have it so Amd is cutting it for all.
Gain some traction, the good guy goes out the window.
Guys, Most of us are not super rich to upgrade the CPU every 2 new years and like myself we build it to last minimum for 5 years and we change only GPU.
That’s not cool at all from AMD since it was promised socket support through 2020 and not chipset support.
Socket support means a m/board should be compatible with CPUs released until the timeframe ends. This is complete BS and despite being an AMD fan, i can’t defend or justify this. AMD should have said things differently !
The people who are screwed the most are 400-series owners and for us this is basically an Intel situation. It’s cool that the platform has lasted this long but not even allowing motherboard vendors to create BIOSes themselves for those willing to go through the hassle? Yeah, that’s a sh**ty move in my books. I guess I will just get a 3800X when it’s heavily discounted in a year and not go for the shinier 4000-series, that’s all.
Good thing is i was waiting for the 4000 Series and B550 Mobo. 🙂
This is quite a bit of a clusterf*k. Still better than what Intel has been and still is doing, but a clear breach with the expectations AMD has led customers to have.
Thanks Amd for saving me money i was going to get a Zen 3 CPU but now i’ll just grab a higher-end RTX card!