Back in 2015, we informed you about Steam users abusing its Refund policy. As always, we were heavily criticized about it, however it appears that we were right all along. Now before jumping to conclusions, we were not claiming that everyone abuses it. No, not at all. PC gamers are not thieves and we’re not saying such a thing. However, it’s a fact that some people abuse the system.
As we claimed back then, Steam’s refund ‘time-played’ policy should be dynamic as in its current form it has a negative impact to games that last 2-3 hours.
“Our opinion is that Steam’s refund ‘time-played’ policy should be dynamic. For indie titles that are priced at $2 or that last 2-3 hours, it should be around 20 minutes or so. For games priced at $30, it should be around one hour and for games at $59.99 it should be 2 hours. Or at least something like that.”
But what’s the meaning of this and why are we bringing this up? Well, Firewatch was released a couple of days ago. Firewatch is an indie title that lasts around 3 hours, and it took the team two years to create. And while Firewatch is a lovely experience that is priced at $18, some users are tempted in refunding the game even after completing in under two hours.
Here is what one of Campo Santos’ developer replied to a Steam user who – in a kind way – questioned whether he should use the refund policy of Steam as he has managed to finish the game in under two hours.
“The 11 of us all took a lot of risk to make this, and sacrificed financially to give Firewatch a chance. We all could have had much better paying jobs elsewhere, but we all thought this game idea had potential to be something special. We seemed to like each other ok, so we all took a big leap of faith. Two years, we say. Let’s give this a go, worst outcome is we all hate each other and go back to various money jobs, but we all could say, WE TRIED.
Two years +. We are all crammed in a tiny office, sharing one bathroom. It is not a glamorous thing, making an independent game. It is just a small room full of computers and a used microwave and $10 office chairs we luckily got from craigslist. Life happened during those two years: there were big breakups, profound illnesses of loved ones, a baby, etc. The dev team got to be like family, because that’s how making an indie game is, you are all in it together, through thick and thin, supporting one another bc if you don’t, there is no way in hell this game would get made, let alone any chance of it to be worth more than a bucket of ****.
We were excited, but terrified. We felt free, but were constrained. I have been in this industry for 15 years almost, and this is the hardest I have ever worked. We all gave it our all, to make this weird thing, and we had no idea if it was any good to anybody else. All we could do, was try the damn hardest to make something we are honestly proud of. At the end, if this was a commercial failure, all we have got is what we have made. Nobody could take that away.
So yes, I am sad when people think this game is not worth the money we asked for (which we thought was a fair ask). It makes me feel like I failed them. It is ok if people don’t like the game, but it affects me personally a lot, when people feel like it was not -worth- the time they engaged with it.”
And this is precisely why we wanted to raise awareness back in 2015!
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
Contact: Email
From a consumer perspective, I can’t give 2 sh*ts about what a dev feels. If a game is 20€ and you can finish it in around 3hours with almost no replay ability, sorry to say but that might not be a good investment for some. I finished the game so quickly it left me with a really bad after taste.
If you have such a strong stance, with your moral reason and all, you obviously have higher IQ than a pigeon (which is great!). If so, why the HELL have you not informed yourself about the length of the game before the purchase???
Not my point, my point is the game has really bad value for the price.
The refund system works so you don’t have to inform yourself about all aspects of a game before buying it.
It’s what makes it worth it for both the seller and the buyer, it makes more people less worried about buying because they have the right to return it easily, no questions asked, if any aspect of the product isn’t to their liking.
Because there are such things as demos and the information you are given about the game is totally not hype and it is always accurate.
You got just about the right IQ to be a moron consumer.
I’m with devs on this one. Great game, good job. Would buy again!
I’m s really sad about this whole refund situation, some people are total jerks.
Why just not make playable demos like back in the days, instead of this steam refund thing?
That would be nice, i haven’t seen real demo in ages….
A different option could be there to protect devs from the occasional abusive consumer, but then what option would be there to protect the consumer from the occasional abusive dev? As it is, the refund system is skewed in favor of the consumer and personally I feel it’s better that way.
So make the game bigger than 2 hours, problem solved. Otherwise don’t complain about your games getting refunded.
And why even buy the game if you plan to refund it after finishing it. Might as well just pirate the game, its basically the same thing.
“So make the game bigger than 2 hours”
Please don’t. They already artificially extended the gameplay by having the character walk as slow as possible.
The scum that refunded the game after finishing it should have their Steam accounts locked. They’re garbage gamers.
These kinds peasant gamers belong on consoles who finish their games and immediately trade it in to get most of their money back.
True words
Demos make demos we have the technology but demos are apparently a luxury.
Who can blame then, when any game cost a lot of money? No everybody has the money you have or live with their parents yet.
Quite arrogant to assume everyone has the kind of disposable income you do; there’s enough people out there for whom 18 bucks is a lot, shouldn’t be too difficult to imagine a non-trivial expense leading to disappointment when finding out it’s that short when they unexpectedly end up “finishing it” already.
If I was in their shoes I’d much rather refund and get a game with actual substance to it, than be stuck with nothing to play for the rest of the month.
Or would you rather just have them forgo using Steam altogether and choose a life of piracy instead?
That’s the most ridiculous excuse I’ve ever seen.
If 18 bucks “is a lot” for you, then don’t spend them on this game to begin with. But spending them, finishing the game and asking for a refund is just being a jerk. And if you don’t know if the game is worth playing, that’s what reviews and YouTube are for.
Grow up already.
20 bucks for 3 hours, they should grow up
It’s not 20 bucks for 3 hours, it’s 20 bucks for 2 years of work.
It’s a indie game FFS.
SO “indie” is the new pretext for short games?
Valdis Story have more than 15 hours of gameplay and it has a highly replay value because four different main characters with their own skills.
It is also a different genre of game that doesn’t fit the comparison. :v
People need to stop boiling down things to the game length/game price.
If you don’t like it, no one is pointing a gun at your head to buy it…
Like I said, grow up already.
By that logic they might as well wait another year to release it and then charge 30 dollars. That would be fair, after all dev time somehow equates value, right? Wrong.
Not talking about dev time specifically man, it’s about the amount of work on those two years.
If you don’t like it, no one is pointing a gun at your head to buy it..
Like I said, grow up already.
I beg you pardon? :v
So if you spend a lot of time making a bad game the game is worth a lot of money despite being bad? Nope! Effort does not equate value either. Try again.
Bad or good is subjective.
Value is based around the effort, it will be up to the consumer to see if it’s worth that or not. In this case, not only I think it is worth the $20, as did the guy who asked for a refund (and he said he enjoyed the game a lot and that the devs deserve the money for the effort they put to make the game).
If you don’t like it, no one is pointing a gun at your head to buy it.
Like I said, grow up already.
And noone forced the developers to make a boring walking simulator and waste their resources on all the wrong features so they ended up with a “game” that only lasts 3 hours and has no replay value. They are the ones whining about mean people refunding a game that isn’t worth buying.
There’s a limit at how much retarded your comments can be. You realize that, right?
Anyway, if you think that way, then good luck on your crusade against bad products everywhere, buying them and then begging for a refund. You’ll have for a lifetime of those only in a chinese store.
(And I’m not even saying that Firewatch is bad, only short. If short equals bad for you, then yet another proof you must be a brat addicted to inmediate pleasure).
No, they shouldn’t. They just offered a crap product (by your standarts). It’s up to you wheter to support or ignore it.
Yeah if 18 usd is “a lot” you should probably stop wasting time playing videogames and get a job.
Because poor countries dont exist.
I totally get what you’re saying, but that doesn’t excuse paying for access to something, finishing it and asking for a refund, does it?
Maybe it would be better if Steam had some kind of reason list as to why gamers asked for refunds on certain games so we could ascertain why.
The only reason I could excuse a refund is pure ignorance: they thought they were getting some kind of Fallout-esque survival game that would last 40-50 hours but got more of a narrative-based linear adventure that lasted 3-5 hours.
Uh, what? What does that have to do with anything? The guy clearly has a PC that can move the game and has the free time to play it, but he justifies pirating the game because he says he’s ‘poor’? Please.
Martin you are troll.
Edwin I am not.
“there’s enough people out there for whom 18 bucks is a lot” THEN THEY SHOULDN’T HAVE BOUGHT THE D@MN GAME. Gamers shouldn’t punish devs for their own cheapness.
Alright, guess gamers on lower incomes are better off avoiding experimental or artsy indie games altogether then. Much better to just spend that money on the latest AAA-budget multiplayer shooter or generic open world game instead if they want something that lasts, right?
Thought the glorious PC Master Race was supposed to be openminded, inclusive and welcoming to all… I’d normally expect this brand of elitist exclusionism where the “others” don’t deserve whatever “our group” does have from Sonyfags instead.
“Thought the glorious PC Master Race was supposed to be openminded, inclusive and welcoming to all… I’d normally expect this brand of elitist exclusionism where the “others” don’t deserve whatever “our group” does have from Sonyfags instead.”
That’s a strawman argument if I ever read one.
Paying for a product, using it all up and then asking for a refund is just bad, regardless of your financial bracket. Your level of wealth isn’t an excuse for mismanaging expectations for a game and then punishing the hard-working developers by taking back the money you gave them for a game that is fully functional.
In fact, if you’re actually really poor then I’d think you’d be even MORE conscientious about the games you buy. For me, if I was really poor, I’d be thinking really hard about spending $20 on a game and would know everything about it before I made the purchase.
So when you think you’re buying a good indie game that you think is worth the money, and it turns out its not, and you refund because you can’t throw money around, you’re literally Satan.
F’ off.
If you’re so cheap that you need to get a refund for $20 you should be conscientious enough to do a little d@mn research before throwing your money around like it means nothing to you. The devs spent years on this game and now a bunch of d@@fuses are taking back the money they need to keep plying their trade.
You wouldn’t go into a restaurant, clean your entire plate and then ask for a refund. That’s what d@uchbags do. Don’t be one.
We got it, you have plenty of money, 20$ is nothing for you because you are good paid worker.
If $20 is that big a deal then you shouldn’t even be a gamer. Worry about paying your bills and feeding yourself.
You know, you are forgetting the fact, that most people didnt even realize they were about to finish the game. Like some movie that ends in the middle of the most important part of the movie itself.
You are right, as you say I see the elitism floating around this thread, full of rich people who thinks 20$ is nothing, they use 20$ dollars bills for cleaning their 4ss3s.
I see your point, guess you are playing something, expecting to have some hours of fun, but the game suddenly ends within two hours. Thats it you ended the game suddenly and didnt like, if you refund it, a swarm of elitist PC gamers will come to you to tell you are a scumbag. Sometimes console gamers are right.
You are right, gamers with low gaming budget must avoid any indie game… Oh wait, actually low budget gamers buy indie games because they arent 59.99$ AAA games. LOL.
You realize that in the context of dev earnings:
not buying the game = refunding the game
Right? No, you don’t because you’re being emotional about this rather than looking at it from an economic perspective. We aren’t talking about physical copies being shipped back, there is no money being LOST from refunds, it’s just NOT GAINED. Exactly the same as when the person doesn’t buy from the start.
not there fault they beat a crappy indie game in UNDER 2 hours and wanted there 20$ back. its funny they mention games priced at 2$ which is what this should have been priced at. pirated it at release and thought it was a bland boring meme game.
Congratulations, you have post the most flaming comment here which actually doesnt have any deep point about the theme and still got 22 votes, showing one more time that internet is stupid.
Im pretty sure most people who were playing this said, OMG did I finish it already? LOL. When you can finish a game in two hours I think one cant even get their true feelings about the game, we can only say, “wow, that was fast”
22 people agreed with me BECAUSE I’M RIGHT, ya goof.
The main problem is probably the pricing. $18 for a 3 hour game is quite a lot, indie or not. Most people would not have a problem if it was $10-12 and really good. I haven’t played it myself but might pick it up on sale.
I mean there are some indie games that I would’ve easily paid twice their price because they were so good but might have had a hard time picking up the first time if they were 20€ instead of 10€. FTL and Undertale come to mind.
Two years of development seems pretty long even for a small team considering the game length and using an existing game engine (Unity).
They’re from California, so you can guess what they were doing a lot of the time.
by that standard people have rights to refund their tickets if any movies are say… less than 2 hours of length.
now, does that seem fair to you?
3 hours? So how come i finish it in 5 (maybe 6 even) then? I didn’t slack either. I was exploring for those secrets tho. I did find a ton of cool stuff. Why do people finish it in 3 hours? Do you guys miss out on half of the game? Do you not enjoy the gfx and the park? Do you speed run it? Haha!
yah but it could of been even worse than those people thought.
Could ‘have’ been.
If someone is given a tool, you’re surprised they use it?
So, if I’m given a knife, can I use it to stab you?
Such awesome logic…
His point is that average people are generally stupid and will misuse/abuse systems like the Steam refunds.
…can’t argue with that 😛
why not devs do it all the time. Look up drm, microtransactions etc etc
Others doing it doesn’t justify doing it yourself. Anyone doing so loses the right to complain about the things you just mentioned.
False equivalence.
You sound like a kid who just heard what an analogy is and can’t apply it.
And you sound like a loser with no confidence on the hunt for anything on the Internet that can bring back your pathetic ego.
Steam Refunds is a tool. A tool that, like every tool, can be used to benefit or harm yourself/others. Hence my analogy: not just because you’re given it it means that you have to misuse it.
But of course, feel free to “refute” me again with ridiculous arguments in the name of your ego.
You think your first sentence shows off your confidence? Kek.
The entire point is that this is entirely the responsibility of Valve, they did not instate a different rule set or terms for shorter games.
Do I really have to explain to you how using a knife to physically attack and harm someone is not equivalent nor comparable to using a digital distributor’s faulty refund policy to refund a short game?
I wasn’t showing off anything. What a pathetic try at trying to change the subject thou…but keep thinking that I’m 15 or something, that way you’ll keep tripping some more landmines.
Simply put:
– I’ve nothing new to say to you.
– I don’t like to repeat myself.
– I refuse to let you derail that SIMPLE POINT any longer only so you can satisfy your wounded ego.
So go buy yourself some self-esteem already.
You’re the one who can’t stop harping about self esteem and egos. Looks like a case of projection.
Aka: “I HAVE NO ARGUMENTZ LEFT BUT I WANNA HAVE THE LAZT WORD IN THIZ DIZCUZZION ZO I FEEL LIKE I WON IT, AND ZO I GO THE INFANTILE WAY OF JUSTZ ZAYIN: ‘OMG YOU MORE!!!!!'”.
Stupid brat confirmed.
Appealing to emotion is quite petty.
I agree. I was actually looking for a comment like this. I felt like I’m the only one here that thinks that business should be business. No one cared when I had to leave everything behind in order to start a business which eventually went to sh*t.
Yeah yeah yeah. $20 for 3 hours.
Steam sale.
Abusing policies like that is not something that should be done but watching this from the side of the gamer/consumer 20$ for less than 3 hours? Really now? I was planning to buy the game but this kind of length on games should NOT be allowed so there is no way to pay money for a couple of hours! Money don’t fall from trees.. So devs I believe you should have seen that one coming. Or simply price the game 5$
The game has mechanics that purposefully slow you down, without them it would be less than 2h.
You’re literally better off watching a playthrough.
I liked the game but almost 20 euros for just under 4 hours.. eh… Idk how some people could finish the game in under 2 hours. The devs are right tho.
gameplay lengths should be capped to a minimum of 10 hours, not including bonus content+r any replay value. The gaming industry should be aware of this. i don’t care if its an indie title. CONSUMERS’ rights > developers.
just my opinion.
6h should be the minimum for 15$
7-8 for 20$
Developing a game is not easy or cheap.
Because of those jerks, more and more Indie developers are turning to console only development. I bet next Campo Santo game will be console only.
Thanks morons, here take your €20 refund money and shove it up your….
“more Indie developers are turning to console only ”
No they dont and the argument is stupid just as piracy argument. There are used games and rents on consoles.
You are the moron, valve gave us demos via refund system, you want to toss that away for cosnoles which have game sharing used sales and renting games.
“demos via refund system”refund system should not be used as demo preview, thats an abuse of entire system. your argument is invalid.
Btw Nice reply calling me moron, what are you 10?
stay classy Durka
No it isn’t.
The system was created for this purpose, you get 2h to play it, if you don’t exceed that you can refund it for whatever reason. There is no abuse, this is intended.
so people that judge a product’s price by it’s length should be ready to pay more for lengthier games right? because somehow i doubt they would. that’s not how i judge the games though at all.
i understand the argument though. we can purchase lengthier quality titles with the same amount of money but if you already played and finished the game, then there is no way for developers to know if you were only “testing” the game or you are just abusing the system. the root of the problem is Steam though. i am thankful for their new refund policy but i would appreciate a better policy more.
either way ain’t gonna turn this into a discussion cause sadly usually internet discussions are pointless. just sharing my opinion. thanks for the article.
if you want to be ripped off go ahead and get it.same with episode story games. paying x4 what the game is worth for 6-8 hrs of game play.
there is no argument here you either get ripped off or dont. so you are saying its ok for them to rip you off.
3 hrs of dialog isnt fun.
£15 for two hours? i’d have got my money back too.
had the game cost like 5 or 6 quid then i’d have let it slide.
DNR
I don’t give a sh*t about the game or its length or its quality but the fact that people can so easily abuse the steams refund policy so easily is pathetic. Valve should really have thought things through, what kind poor management do you have Valve? So many broken systems keep coming one after another only to pulled later on, think things through for the love of all gamers and devs.
“there is no way in hell this game would get made, let alone any chance of it to be worth more than a bucket of ****.”
20 bucks 3 hours
PFFFT
Really pathetic show from the pc gaming race.. this game is awesome worth every cent
dont base a whole group of people on a few peoples actions
1. Pathetic show from a bunch of snob nosed pretentious Indie developers charging 20$ for a 2-3h game.
2. Pathetic show from Valve for not creating specific policies for short games.
I don’t think this type of thing is very widespread, but it certainly can happen. If you go see a movie and don’t like it, you’re not entitled to a refund. I don’t see why the same shouldn’t be true for games.
Movies have bigger budgets and don’t cost 20 dollars to stream on your computer. The only thing you get extra with this “game” is the ability to replay it but from what I hear it’s linear, the choices are fake and there’s really no reason to replay it.
i see so many entitled brats saying about length of game not worth how many bucks. how about this? I pay you 100 bucks you make me a game of 3 hours length of the game of same quality.
These are 11 professionals with a lot of experience in the industry. No excuse.
You’re another idiot who uses the “if u can’t make something better then don’t saying anything negative” line of thinking.
so you will pay $60 for 8hrs of gameplay?
You think their budget was 100 “bucks”? The only self-entitled people in this scenario are the devs who made yet another pretentious walking simulator and complain when people throw in the towel after less than 2 hours of it. Obviously the game can’t be any fun if people aren’t hooked after they’ve played TWO THIRDS of it. If you want to defend these short barely-games you better come up with a line of reasoning that makes those 2 hours worth paying for. Instead you and the devs seem to be arguing that whether someone enjoys the game is irrelevant.
First proof of absurdity: Rocket League cost me 20 or even only 15 euros and so far I’ve played over 500 hours of it. I’m certain it cost more money to make (it has actual GAMEPLAY, difficult to program, many bugs to fix etc.) and to maintain the servers, and to deliver the FREE updates. That’s what I can get for 20 dollars or less. Meanwhile these devs act like 3 hours with no replay value for 20 dollars are acceptable, and you’re defending them. Get outta town!
Second proof of absurdity: Plenty of movies offer more content than this so-called “game”. Most of them take a lot more money to produce and they cost less than 20 dollars to get access to. For 20 dollars you could watch several movies on some legal streaming service, or two movies at the cinema.
those people who keep abusing the refund system are going to get it taken away from the rest of us . I have used it once and the game flat-out would not work
blame steam not people.
why ? steam dont force people to do it
but it gives them the option unlike before.the devs arnt losing money because of people returning per say.its steam return policy.before you couldnt return indie games on steam and they bank.
no they are losing money because of the return policy.indie devs made to much money before when you couldnt return their crappy game but now you can ob steam.
you expect people to keep a crappy 3hr game they dont like?
well from what i have heard the game is not crappy just not long and it is the people who are doing it not steams fault . its called taking advantage . steam should have better measures in place for sure .
I try not to get games i do not like in the first place and have only refunded one game so far .
If you are going to get a game that is known to be short just to then refund it it .. well its steams fault for having an easily abused system but also on the people who do this type of thing . i would bet the majority of people who did refund this game have also refunded many titles in the past
I’m neutral to both sides, but the article tries to open a can of bad worms, while the truth is quite simple: people feel like the story Campo Santo told them simply doesn’t worth $20. Relying on narrative with minimum gameplay elements makes it hard to decide whether you like it or not (and judging by the refund policies you can request a refund even if you simply don’t like it), until you’ll actually complete it.
As for the length. Some of those guys worked for Telltale, and made Walking Dead, which costs $25, offers ~15 hours of gameplay, and it’s one of the best adventure games in the recent years (the same I can say about Tales from the Borderlands). They should have known what kind of competition they’ll have.
There are also many kinds of different games in the same price range, that can offer incredible amount of content and replayability. Torchlight II costs 20$, it was in development for 3 years, and unlike Firewatch, came out only on one platform (PC, obviously). Yet, it had more content than the release version of Diablo 3. I personally spent more than 100 hours in this game, trying different builds and characters, replaying NG+ modes and the Mapworks. That’s what I call “worth the money”.
But them we would be boiling down games to “this is x amount of hours and has x set of mechanics, this one don’t so it don’t deserve” wouldn’t it? Despite being different genres. Like, when you mentioned Torchlight.
I’m on the agreement when you mention the Telltale games as comparison/competition. But if we compare the size of the teams, some other things come into play aswell, no?
That’s why I said about the quality of the story first and foremost, as it’s the key element of this game. If the story was worth it, no one would want to refund it. Judging from my observation, people have a really bad aftertaste, and if they have an opportunity to get their money back, they simply use it.
Don’t you think that there’s something wrong when an award-winning studio with bigger team sizes asks $25 for their games (on release), while an unknown indie developer asks $20, and offers 4-5 times less? If we project the Campo Santo price logic on Telltale’s quality it would probably cost around $100.
I get it and agree, but then again, Telltale has their name and reputation and a big team and investors to back that up, Campo Santo is a 11 people team that, although has some ex-Telltale staff, is a newcomer. But it’s way too complicated now that I think about it, shouldn’t have bring that up, there’s so many things that come to play (like opening a indie studio, prices, niche, etc). -.-
It’s a double-edge sword. Investors aren’t giving money for free, they want profit, and bigger teams means bigger risks and higher budgets.
I personally didn’t think this game was worth the money but i didn’t get a refund and actually i spent 4 hours in it doing a lot of things. However i see zero reason to ever replay the game.
For me it was like 4.50$ an hour sure i could have spent my money on something else but i did enjoy the game a movie cost like 8$ to go see and its typically 1 and a half. Typically that is why i only go to the movies for the best of the best and typically wait for the movie to go on sale at walmart before i buy it and that is what i think of this game.
As for the team itself i don’t care games like game dev i played for hours and hours and i see replayability that game to me is worth it for the money.
Not a lot of gamers have lots of money to just through at games.
Indie Dev Business Plan
Step One: Make something people don’t want to pay for.
Step Two: Cry when people don’t pay for it.
plan 2 put it on console where they cant return it.
They should do games that appeal to the masses instead of doing something that thay really want to make. Games are just allowed to be enjoyed as products after all.
They should do games that last longer than a movie and where you can do more than monotonously jog around if they are charging 20$.
And they should do that because…?
Because obviously they’re unable to stand by their work and face dissatisfied customers. They can do whatever they want, just don’t complain when they get called out for their bs. Simple as that.
So the supposedly dissatisfied consumer did this:
So this game was 18$. I purchased it because I enjoyed games like this. And I enjoyed this game. Alot. Like, way more than a healthy amount. But it was 2-3 hours. I feel like there could of been more, and I’m thinking of refunding. But here is my problem: I loved this game. It was a unique game with awesome narration and storytelling. I like the developers. I mean seriously, have you seen how active they are on these forums? What other dev is that connected to their community? I want to support the developers, but there was so much more i could of got with my 18$. Should i refund, or hold on to it?
And after did this:
“I have made my decision to keep the game. Campo Santo had more balls than Donald Trump on steriods to make this game, and they deserve the money. Feel free to talk about games/this game/developers/morals/refunds or whatever, but I will not change my decision.”
So there’s that.
Excuse me, why are you quoting me some random individual? Do you have two connected neurons in that head of yours? Do I have to explain to you how what you’ve done is absurd?
Oh my giddy aunt! The quotes are from the individual that is the very reason that we are discussing this in the first place. :v
It’s from the guy who started this.
I don’t even know nor care who you’re talking about. I’ve only replied to you.
Oh goodness, I can’t…
You know what? You win.
I’ve not talked about a single individual at any time.
I’m talking about people in general…
You win mate, I’m out.
The dismissive condescension isn’t helping you.
There’s no need to, nobody cares anyway.
Sorry if I bothered you sir, good night.
“instead of doing something that thay really want to make”
If you make the game you want to make then your reward is that game. If you want to be rewarded with MONEY then you’ve got make something for the people who might give you money. You have to make the game someone else wants to buy or you can’t complain when noone buys it. This has nothing to do with “mass appeal” and everything with common sense. You can’t just make some game and then expect people to pay for it out of pity or something. What kind of mindset is that?
So, If I’m passionate, and I use that passion to make something that other people can enjoy aswell, I can’t be rewarded for that?
“Sorry if reality hurts your feelings.”
Heh.
I edited that part out before your response was shown on my feed. Sorry that you arrived early enough to read it.
“If I’m passionate, and I use that passion to make something that other people can enjoy aswell, I can’t be rewarded for that?”
This doesn’t apply to the situation at hand. Clearly, the people who refunded the game did NOT enjoy it, else they would have finished it. The game is allegedly 3 hours long so if you finish it you can’t refund it. Anyone who enjoyed the game must have kept it.
He did enjoy it and did not refund the game in the end, go read the thread on steam.
I won’t buy nor play this game due to the fact that Anita Sarkeesian is listed as a contributor to this game. This lets me know all I need to about these developers.
Played the game and I really don’t see any influence of her. I bet they met her for coffee, talked for a few minutes then listed her to get free publicity for the SJW crowd.
The gameplay is really non existent, they made navigation of the map annoying and hard so that you’d waste some time walking around, otherwise it would be even shorter. It’s just annoying f*cking walking around and way too much backtracking.
The game is worth 5$ at best. I can go see a real movie x100 better than this sh*t for just a couple bucks more.
If people refund Firewatch because they are too poor (as some say), why do they buy games so haphazardly, without checking how long they are? This is a ludicrous excuse.
>buy the game
>download it
>copy and paste the crack
>refund the game
>????
>profit
:^)
… or simply download the cracked game?
Perhaps if they devs hadn’t lied about the game’s length there wouldn’t be so many people dissatisfied with it. I was expecting around seven hours of content plus the added replayability inherent in games like this. Instead I got a three hour story where your choices make no difference topped off with an unsatisfying ending. It’s ridiculous to ask people to pay $20 for that.
The dialogue choices don’t affect ANYTHING except you might hear a different line of dialogue.
All of the extremely serious choices you make throughout the game amount to absolutely nothing.
i think people bought it not knowing it was only 3hrs long played it for a bit then returned it.were the devs up front about how long the game was?..no.mindcraft stoyo mode $25 for 6hr-8hrs of game play is still a better value then this and i dont even like episode story games.
its about value more then anything.this could be considered a glorified demo like metal ground zero was.remember the crap that game got and it was still better then this.gamers want value.
why pay for a shory game with no replay value?
I wonder how much they paid Anita to peddle her bullshit.
consumer have this right and they will use it, there is no abuse, steam will take away your refund right if you abuse it. instead of making boring walking simulator crap, make better games or don’t cry about it.
Just let figure out for a moment, that you buy a game and then start to play it, expecting some hours of fun or entertaining and then within the course of 2 hours you suddenly end the game and for some reason, because tastes, you didnt like it. What will you do?
Two hours of gameplay doesnt last enough to even have a clear vision about the game was about, in this case Firewatch isnt a fast paced action game but a narrative story for a different kind of gamer but if the game doesnt even last the enough time to make the gamer to get used to the ambient of game? LOL.
Now it seems we should feel sorry about devs because two years of work, Im sorry but Im not being hypocrite, if you feel bad buy many copies of the game, but for me what it matters is the quality of the final product.
Firewatch is a message for all those indie devs which plans to make short games for fast cash, it wont work. There are many indie games outthere which has more than 2 hours of gameplay, even if you dont like some game but ending it takes you more than two hours you cannot refund the game, so problem solved for devs.
PS: I think John went a little biased on this article.
I dragged out the game, I explored everywhere I could because I was under the impression this was kinda of open world, nope, invisible walls everywhere, I hoped there would be a lot of secrets to reward the time i wasted walking around, nope there was virtually nothing.
And just as the story got tense and interesting they absolutely ruin it.
2-3h is absolutely right for a normal playthrough, like they designed it to be played.
I wasn’t exploring every single part of the map, it just happen that way because of the main story, and still. I finish the game for 5 hours. I needed 2 days to do so. Am i playing a different game here or what? 😛 I even used the sprint button after day 20-30.
“Firewatch is an indie title that lasts around 3 hours”
So anyone who stopped playing within 2 hours couldn’t have finished the game and there’s no problem, right? Probably a lie and you can finish it in half the time they’re stating. Regardless, there shouldn’t even be a video game that entertains you for fewer than 5 hours. That’s preposterous. If it’s a visual novel or animated movie then don’t sell it as a game.
I really don’t like this “game” but it really is being hit from all sides, some quick research has revealed that this game has more pirated downloads then total sold, surprising for a game less then $20.
That doesn’t mean much.
It’s means a lot, people will pirate a game as long as it’s available to pirate even if it is at a affordable price. If they couldn’t pirate it i have no doubts they would have opted to buy it instead.
I feel bad for them. I have been following the game for a while but am holding out for a DRM free copy. I want to support them. Hopefully things get better.
Steam Returns was for Buggy games like Batman. This game ran flawless. Zero performance issues. Returning the game because you didn’t like it? Wait for revues. Everybody knew it was a walking sim. So, how you bought this game and thought it was more than that is beyond me. I rarely buy games like this. This one peaked my interest. The previews I saw hit home. So I bought day one. Glad I did!
Now, lets talk value. It took me 6 hours to complete, and contrary to some here, there is indeed replay value. Not a game I would play back to back, but I will go back to it one day make different choices. It was worth the $20.00. If you are cheap, or broke. or a loser, wait for a steam sale, nothing wrong with that. If you returned after doing a 3 hour speed run That makes you a cancer to the PCMR. These Devs put effort into this and it shows. Nobody was mislead. Game ran great.
Ok so.. MAYBE after a team works on a game for TWO YEARS it should last a little bit longer than 3 hours. Are you fuckin kidding me? AAA titles are 60 freaking dollars which I think is pretty insane, but they offer what? 60 hours? Minimum?
I don’t recall if Witcher 3 started at 49.99 but that’s the current price and in my first and only playthrough I have 107 hours played. I haven’t even beaten it yet!
50 cents per hour of enjoyment, and I’m not close to beating it.
Two hours in for the refund policy I was still learning how to play the game and in awe of the story/graphics.
For freaking firewatch people are DONE in 2 hours.
People paid 9 dollars per hour to play!
Go fuck yourself. That is certainly not abuse of the refund policy.
While I do agree that happens, and more often in early access games I believe which is dumb because it says “DON’T BUY IT UNLESS YOU WANT TO SUPPORT THE DEVS.”
Is there replayability? Side quests/missions?
ANYTHING that could make it last more than 2-3 hours?
I hope EVERYBODY refunds if you’re charging 9 dollars an hour in an indie game.
F’ing hell, still going at it?
The guy did not refund the game, he liked it and choose to support the devs. Is that so hard to understand?