You know, I wasn’t planning to publish an article like this. However, I can’t believe how people have immediately switched sides the moment AMD released FSR 3.0 Frame Generation. From comments like “I don’t want fake frames“, we went, in the blink of an eye, to “My RTX2060 lives again, FSR 3.0 doubled my performance“. And this right here exposed the ugly truth about most PC gamers.
Most PC gamers are whiny little kids with zero knowledge who pretend to know things. Now I’m not saying that all PC gamers are clueless or whiny. However, a big part of the PC community acts like that, especially today with the rapid rise of social media. Angry reactions can attract more views on both X/Twitter and YouTube, and some are trying to increase their audience this way. And, like it or not, it works.
When NVIDIA released DLSS 3, everyone was calling Frame Generation a total flop. Everyone was against those “fake frames“. Hell, that line became an industry joke. Not only that but everyone and their mother had an RTX40 series GPU. Everyone tested DLSS 3. And everyone disliked it, claiming that they were feeling the extra input latency. Because yes, on the Internet, everyone has the latest and greatest GPU. Trust me, bro.
Fast forward a few months and here we are with AMD’s FSR 3.0. And suddenly, the narrative has completely changed. People are suddenly fine to be gaming at 60fps WITH FSR 3.0, without noticing any input latency issues. Let me repeat that. 60fps with FSR 3.0. When the same people could, miraculously, notice the extra input latency of DLSS 3 at 120fps. And what about the “fake frames” and their visual artifacts? You know, those artifacts you could only see when running a video at 25% speed. Well, who cares? After all, “FSR 3.0 gives me a free boost“. So why was DLSS 3 criticized so heavily?
Well, we all know why a lot of PC gamers picked their pitchforks. It wasn’t due to the extra input latency and it wasn’t due to the fake frames. It was because DLSS 3 was exclusive to the RTX40 GPU series, and most of them couldn’t enjoy it. And instead of admitting it, they were desperately trying to convince themselves that the Frame Generation tech was useless. But now that FSR 3.0 is available? Now that they can use it? Well, now everyone seems to be happy about it. Now, suddenly, Frame Generation is great. Ironic, isn’t it?
And I don’t blame the YouTubers who released mad/angry videos about DLSS 3. Their ultimate goal was to get more clicks, and they succeeded. However, PC gamers – and people in general – should start using their heads, and not blindly following what “x” YouTuber said. They should try things themselves before expressing opinions about things they haven’t gotten their hands on. Common sense, I know.
A similar thing happened with Ray Tracing. A lot of people called it a gimmick, even though they didn’t have a clue of what it was and how it could improve graphics. From the very first moment, we said that RT can be used to improve the lighting in games. And we were right. RTGI and RTAO are the best uses of RT in modern games.
So yeah, the release of the AMD FSR 3.0 was quite interesting. And most importantly, the mods that allowed you to enable FSR 3.0 in all the games that already used DLSS 3.0. Those mods exposed the people who hadn’t tested DLSS 3 and still hated it. Hell, some even found AFMF to be great (which is miles worse than both FSR 3.0 and DLSS 3). But hey, everything goes out the window the moment you get a free performance boost on YOUR GPU, right? Oh, the irony…
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
Contact: Email
Why are you assuming it’s the same people who don’t like fake frames now cheering for it?
Generalizations: The Article
So true. This articles are so childish and irrelevant. Its like John is looking for drama and enemies that are not there just like the fake frames. They are the side switcher guys. John gets offended by fake frames…
“And I don’t blame the YouTubers who released mad/angry videos about DLSS 3. Their ultimate goal was to get more clicks, and they succeeded.”
I mean, he says it right there dudes.
Do you know what generalisation is?
and his ultimate goal is more clicks too. Hence this dumbass article.
His keeping a list. The fake frames offenders.
They’re also as dastardly as the chromatic aberration crusaders and the motion blur mafia.
Even worse
Also the Denuvo crusaders.
Don’t forget the Film Grain Gestapo!
Lest we also forget the last-gen consoles with their infamous Checkerboard Rendering Cognoscenti!
The Depth of Field cartel
Its the hive mind. The hive mind boo-ed fake frames with DLSS 3 but are ok with fake frames with FSR 3.0
He took the middle ground between Black-or-White & Texas Sharp shooter Fallacies.
Well personally I’ve seen dozens of examples of it. No so much here but on half a dozen popular YouTube channels and especially on Videocardz which is whiny little b*tch central
Just like a typical fanboy, I think he’s assuming all the people praising FSR3 are AMD owners.
The reality is that the majority who are using the free FSR3 mod by Nukem are RTX owners since it does not work on AMD cards at all.
The article seems to ignore 2 things that seem to be happening with FSR 3 FG that isn’t happening with DLSS 3 FG:
1. FSR3 FG seems to cleanly boost performance by ~80-100% across the board, on all GPUs. DLSS3 FG DOES NOT do this. You’ll see performance go up by 10-15-30% on GPUs like 4060 / 4060 Ti / 4070. Therefore, FSR3 is superior.
2. With DLSS3 FG, you can have Reflex enabled before FG. Therefore, enabling FG will ALWAYS result in higher latency.
With FSR3 FG, the FG part itself has Anti-Lag+ built into it. So latency is often close to no FG or even LOWER with FG.
TL;DR: FSR3 FG runs better, has less VRAM overhead, has less latency, runs on anything, takes UI elements into account better (based on Forspoken and Aveum and not Avatar) and image quality is also better than DLSS3 FG. An all around win.
You CLEARLY don’t know what you’re talking about, and you haven’t tested DLSS 3. DLSS 3 is better in every way than FSR 3.0 (apart from the fact that FSR 3.0 works in most GPUs from all vendors).
1) For the most part, FSR 3.0 FG has the same boost with DLSS 3 FG. I know, I’ve tested them. You can almost double the performance in less powerful CPUs with both FSR 3.0 and DLSS 3. That’s how the technology works. In some cases, the implementation of DLSS 3 can be worse than FSR 3.0 and vice versa. It’s similar to what currently happens with DLSS 2 and FSR 2.2.
2) Reflex results in LOWER input latency. And Anti-Lag+ is NOT built into FSR 3.0. Again, you have NO IDEA of what you’re talking about so stop embarassing yourself.
“AMD FSR 3 includes latency reduction technology for responsive gaming experiences when using frame generation technology. AMD Radeon Anti-Lag+ technology is an extra feature to further lower the latency while using FSR 3.” Coming straight from AMD’s mouth.
3) DLSS 3 FG and FSR 3.0 FG have the same VRAM requirements. DLSS 3 also works better (no issues with VRR monitors or frame pacing issues) and has better image quality.
“3) DLSS 3 FG and FSR 3.0 FG have the same VRAM requirements. DLSS 3 also works better (no issues with VRR monitors or frame pacing issues) and has better image quality.”
In Avatar, the last game with official FSR3 implementation, there are no issues with vrr or frame pacing either. And we can’t compare image quality because there aren’t currently games with official implementation of both.
In Avatar there are a) tearing issues with UI elements and b) frame pacing issues in GPU heavy scenes. Both DF and HU detailed these issues, and I was also able to immediately notice them (that’s why I said in my First Impressions that FSR 3.0 wasn’t smooth https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/avatar-frontiers-of-pandora-amd-fsr-3-0-pc-performance-impressions/ ). At first I thought it wasn’t working with VRR monitors. I was wrong. It does work, but it suffers from the two issues I mentioned above, making the entire experience feel stuttery. If you think FSR 3.0 works well in Avatar, you’ll be blown away when you try DLSS 3.
This comment was paid for by Nvidia. John sold his soul and his hole.
How much is AMD paying to you for this BS? 😀
Just a used pair of your mums knickers.
Very nice you “hero”.
That’s what she said, and also ‘thankyou daddy’.
Actually, FSR3 does have a built in basic anti latency feature for ALL hardware. This is different from the extra added on antilag & anti-lag+, so Jon I agree with you on that.
Simple Google search – “does fsr3 have built in antilag”
“… FSR 3 includes its own “reflex” anti-latency technology that will work on any hardware. Anti-Lag, and Anti-Lag+ (7000 only) are *Extra* latency reductions on top of FSR 3’s built in one”
So it contains a basic latency reducing feature that is less capable than the official anti-lag/ anti-lag+ but it still there and present for non rdna 2/3 gpus. Even your statement references it as an extra feature to further reduce the latency
Having tested both, it’s true that DLSS FG is better tech all-around than FSR3 FG. It’s just a common human thing to do to call something garbage because they can’t have it. And a lot of people did say they blamed Nvidia for making it exclusive to RTX 40 series GPUs. And they have a point there. AMD is trailing behind, trying to appeal to the consumers by making its tech available to a larger base of player (and that’s a reasonable strategy to have when you’re the underdog trying to cut sales from your competitor). As it’s becoming apparent that, in the near future, GPUs of the next generation will not offer that big of a boost vs previous gen compared to what we were used to, Nvidia, to keep selling cards, will keep its tech exclusive to the next generation of GPUs. And the PC gaming community will have to cope with that.
There isn’t anyone who doesn’t blame NVIDIA for making DLSS 3 exclusive to the RTX40 series. They explained why they did it but if they wanted, they’d have offered a “Legacy” mode for the RTX GPUs that lacked the Optical Flow Accelerator.
PS: This is actually a question we asked NVIDIA, so hopefully we’ll have an answer in our upcoming “Q&A Interview” article.
Older GPU’s have Optical Flow Accelerators, but NVIDIA claims a huge performance leap in the Optical Flow Accelerators in the RTX 40 series, and the significantly lower performance in previous generations is why they claim frame generation doesn’t work. Obviously they could have implemented the tech in such a way that it didn’t need the Optical Flow Accelerators, since AMD was able to do it, but that doesn’t sell GPU’s.
Exactly, they’re always going to present it in a way that appears logical on their end, but everyone understands what it’s really about.
Nvidia didn’t claim it didn’t work on non-40…its just not as good and they were “working” on it…well we know what that means. If they see a need to bring it to market they will but until then they’ll rather make it exclusive to ada for $$
I’m pretty sure they claimed it would only work on the RTX 40 series because of the Optical Flow Accelerators. Maybe they came out later and claimed they were working on something for older GPU’s, but I don’t recall hearing about that.
Its not a maybe, the lead designer said yeh it works on prev jen but they want to make sure its good first. But we all know the reason why.
We’ve heard reports of people claiming to get it working on RTX 20 series GPU’s, and that it didn’t run smoothly. That is what I am calling “not working”.
No, Nvidia was RIGHT. If Nvidia were to overrely on tensor cores then FG would be competing with the GPU for resources, WHICH IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM WITH FSR3 AND WHY ITS INFERIOR
You’re a f*king moron, how can it be exactly the same when AMD doesn’t have tensors to compete for?
FSR3 uses async compute for frame gen which is not an inferior method. It uses spare compute shader cycles to generate the frames. Individual compute shaders are never constantly running at 100% so the spare headroom is easily useable for frame gen.
Pretty sure Bryan Catanzaro was asked directly about this on Twitter a while back and he responded that it will function on 20/30-series cards but did not look/perform well enough (something to this effect, but cannot find the original tweet). So I don’t think the feature itself is the point, it’s at what quality / performance level do people find generally acceptable.
That is a load of nonsense from Nvidia. I have a3080FE and FSR3 frame gen works great. As required for frame gen by both Nvidia and AMD, my card can achieve 60 fps in many games so there is no excuse why Nvidia could not get it to work with the 3000 series or older.
Any card capable of getting to 60fps can run frame gen without issues. There are even people with a GTX 1050 getting great results from FSR3.
That’s OK if Nvidia wants to put out an inferior product which is what they would have if they implemented FG without the new optical flow accelerators.
Do you REALLY think they went to all the trouble to completely redesigned them for no reason at all? If you do that tells me you obviously are not an engineer …….
How do you know that they completely redesigned the Optical Flow Accelerators, or that a technology that used other computer accelerators in their GPU’s would have been inferior? I’m not aware of AMD’s frame generation technology even using computer accelerators, at least not beyond what a computer shader would use (which I think just use the normal shader processing cores in your GPU).
Nvidia have already made it clear that opticalflow processing is the reason why FG can only work on Ada. Ampere has OpticalFlow but it’s too weak.
The problem is FACT it’s DIFFERENT from what nvidia say.
FACT IS:
People with RTX2 now can play 60FPS Ultra Graphic games that before run at 19FPS and CAN SEE Patchtracing in Alan Wake ultra at 30FPS
This is FACT that people still enjoy TRUTH!
LIES NVIDIAMEDIA IS:
Then at the other side,there is Nvidia,Medias,Journalists that say that “it’s not possible do that in rtx2 because gpu not have optical flow,it wil be laggy,it will have latency,it will have artifacts” and blablabla
But this is NOT TRUE,because i still play with FSR3+FG mods every day for many hours and i’m HAPPY i can now play games 60FPS ULTRA Graphic that before run at 19FPS instead with DLSS quality
And all this why?
BEcause nvidia want to sell f*king RTX4 that no one want to buy.
Open your eyes.
Yep, everybody just eat that BS Nvidia marketing spitted out. They thought the are making special feature that can only run at special hardware , but look at Gsync,DLSS and FrameGen nowadays, AMD just able to give alternative for all
Legacy Mode ?? as 30xx owner I always have Frame Generation greyed out with DLSS3 supported game, what the heck is Legacy Mode meant ?
It doesn’t exist. I said it would be cool if there was a Legacy Mode (in other words, an official workaround to make DLSS 3 work with older RTX GPUs).
I simply have always looked at it this way. There is no such thing as free performance.
Frame generation frames, “are” fake frames. It’s not a slogan or a term, it is the very definition of the words “fake frames”. They are not produced by the game, and are merely estimated by “AI”, and thrown into the chain, trying to masquerade themselves enough, to not stick out like a sore thumb.
Why anyone would ever settle for this “performance”, is beyond me. It’s like humanity continues to get dumber, and dumber, with its standards dropping lower, and lower.
I never liked any of this garbage then, I still don’t now, and I still won’t in the future.
F**k DLSS, FSR, XeSS, and whatever other gimmick comes next to dupe morons into paying more, for less.
It is not free performance, and I wouldn’t advise buying an RTX 40 series GPU just for the Frame Gen, that would be dumb. The use-case scenario is not that frequent. But, if after choosing your settings you find yourself at around 60 fps in a game, then it is a nice boost in terms of framerates, and you don’t really notice the input lag (at least I don’t). The utility of Frame Generation is going to be heavily dependent on what type of situations you encounter the most while playing.
“Humanity” is indeed getting dumber, at least in many parts of the “western” world. Hell you can see the same clown world “professors” pushing geh stuff in schools complaining how the kids are literal r3tards nowdays. They can’t berely speak or write but pronouns are a priority.
These are not fake frames. They are just computed in another way beyond rendering process. But rendering is also only computation. And also frames computed through the frame generation are computed “by the game” because frame generation is also part of the game source code such as rendering. From the gamer point of view, it does not matter how GPU is computing the frames. The only thing what matter here is what he see and how it feels to play the game. Whole game can be “rendered” by AI if it won’t be vissible from those who are playing the game or when they are satisfied with the result. From the way how are you calling DLSS and others as gimmick, the whole rendering can also be called as gimmick.
“from the gamer point of view, it does not matter how GPU is computing the frames”
except it absolutely DOES matter. Those extra fake generated frames you get on top of the actual game engine rendered frames DO NOT reduce input latency like it would happen without frame generation. Hell, they even add extra input latency for the more perceived framerate “smoothness”.
A distinction need to be made, the game looks smoother (it has more frames, it’s more pleasing to the eye) but it can feel less responsive (but only if you do not use it correctly). For example, if you use these techs at 30fps and calling it trash, it’s simply because you’re doing it wrong.
How many people really know how rendering process works? My guess is that 99% have no clue. So how would they know the difference between “real” and “fake” frames if they are all outputs of GPU just with different kind of computation? Again if the game plays well and you are satisfied with the result, it really does not matter how GPU achieved it.
Why don’t devs settle for cinematic 24 fps cap then? They can push visuals even further and most people including you, won’t notice a difference.
It is not only black and white. With frame generation or DLSS in some games you will notice differences in other don’t. It also depends on game settings and the upscaling level. For frame generation you also should have bigger FPS base to get benefits from it. Many people just pick the worst case and generalize it for everything. I assume this is the same reason why you use unrelevant argument with 24 FPS when DLSS aims to get them higher.
Fake frames are useless then if the baseline fps need to be 60 fps anyway.
No. They are not. Many people today has monitors with higher frekvencies than 60Hz. My all monitors are like that. 2K with 144/165Hz. The most of the people have monitors with 2K or less resolution. And you can handle such monitors with GPUs, which don’t ruined you. For example I have notebook with RTX 3070 Ti Mobile (ekvivalent of desktop 3060 Ti), which is handling the most of the games with 80 or more FPS. So why not to use frame generation to get smoother framerate which match my monitor capabilities?
I think most of the sentiment is due to the fact that FSR3 isn’t locked to any one brand or even series within a certain brand. Ngreedia has not done much to foster a positive image but one of a greedy manipulative bunch of rats. Physx vibes here. Games that even support fg/rt rely way too much on graphical fidelity imo, at the expense of better writing and fun gameplay. Invidia=to envy, manipulating human weakness of graphics and looks to drive a money machine.
Now I don’t use either RT or FG so can’t say really about latency, it makes sense when so many frames are being guessed at and likely using dlss2 process in there at the same time. I haven’t found normal tech all that bad looking and haven’t found games made with rt and now fg as a huge selling point all that great or even really needing it like cp77. Idk some people just can never get enough I guess, in a time where some igpu’s can play gtav at decent settings and fps etc
So an article with nothing but whining about people whining. That was low of you dsogaming. Framegen is good now. Not when it came out. For both Nvidia and amd. What people complained mostly was Nvidia using generated frames to claim their card was by default better than last gen cards. Same thing claiming 4060 was twice as powerful than the 3060 but comparing it with framegen and saying nothing.
He’s a liar and a paid schill. Nothing new, nothing to see here, we all need to move along.
I’m sorry John, but I don’t buy it. There are a ton of gamers out there, and the majority of them have older GPU’s. The odds that the ones who are happy about AMD frame generation being the same ones who said they didn’t want fake frames are relatively low.
As for myself, I will try the tech once it comes to a game I have just to see what it’s like, however I won’t actually play games with it on. I don’t like temporal vaseline smeared all over my game visuals, and I despise the ghosting that such technologies (TAA, DLSS, FSR, etc) cause.
Great article. I noticed exactly the same things. And i saw it mainly with AMD fans. They were strictly against upscaling, when DLSS came to games and they were strictly against frame generation when it first came too. Now many of them are great with FSR and FSR 3.0. And they are even saying, that FSR is better or in par with DLSS and that DLSS is dead. 😀 Also good point with AFMF. Many FG haters starts to claim, that AMD is offering the same thing but directly in driver for all games and they are using to mock DLSS or NVIDIA and presenting it as a great victory. But that’s just the proof they don’t really understand these technologies.
There is also another way how they are showing their ignorance by claiming that technologies as DLSS are aimed for older cards and nobody have reason to use it with GPUs like todays 4080/4090.
As an old fart gamer the biggest problem is figuring out all this lingo and abbreviations as people fight over everything.
I been taking notes though.
now normally I agree with you 99% that 1% being the overuse of “amazing”..lulz .anywho ever try frame gen on wrc generations?? The love or hate of frame gen can depend on the title. starfield is made into buttery steak,(still sucks but runs) WRC is made into hot garbage with penis inside.
Haven’t tried FG on WRC but played the game a few hours. It’s a stuttery mess, there’s huge stutters everywhere so I wouldn’t be surprised if FG didn’t help because the game is such a mess to begin with (EA’s signature touch).
not that one, the previous wrc Generations, frame generation made it a horrid rubbery mess. the current one got patch for shader comp, ea’s take on it, is better now, but still kinda sucks…I give codemasters a few years before they’re dead. pity I did like everything they did before the devil bought them.
I can’t stand flickering with FSR2, I doubt I’ll do with visual glitchs when I try FSR3 (without mods)
I actually enjoyed reading this article. Well written and from the heart.
All i blame Nvidia for is.. locking it to the 40 series. I prefer not to use it, but of course ill use it if all my games cant hit 60. Instead of buying a new GPU etc.
FSR 3 proves that tech works well on the 20 and 30 series. Thats why im mad at Nvidia and DLSS3. AMD did what Nvidia didnt. Its simple as that. Im playing Cyberpunk on max settings on my old 3070 with FSR 3 mod. Nvidia? Nope. No frame gen from them. They dont care about their own userbase.
No it does not. Nvidia was RIGHT to lock the tech. FSR3 is vastly inferior to DLSS3FG because the compute shader competes with the renderer for resources on the GPU. That’s why it has terrible frame pacing without vsync, whereas DLSS3 works BETTER without vsync. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
You do realize each individual shader is never 100% in use. There are usually alot of shaders in a gpu which allows plenty of headroom for the frame gen to be executed. For reference, an RTX 3080FE has 8704 shaders.
Maybe i dont know anything, but i did test it and it ran perfectly. The frame pacing thing was only there for forspoken. I tried the FSR 3 mods for Cyberpunk/Spiderman and all the other games. I made videos about them. They ran VERY smoothly, i can even show you. The only negative thing was the input lag. Which is also the case for DLSS’s frame gen tech? I know you can make it better with Reflex but yeah. Speaking of V sync… i use it daily cus thats how my TV is. There is no support for G sync or anything like that. To me, FSR 3 is pretty good. It made me run Alan Wake 2 at 4K max settings. Before? I could barely hit 50. Now its just smooth, as if its 60. I really dont know much about the tech, just the basic stuff. What i see is what i write about. What i see is Nvidia locked this tech (even if its better) and AMD did not. Nvidia didnt offer this kind of worst tech to the rest of us, AMD did. This tech literally made my card useful for many modern games. Whats better, input lag or buying a new card for 1000-1300 bucks? Id take the input lag, especially for singleplayer games. Its not that great for FPS games or even racing games. Still better than nothing tho.
So yeah, Nvidia is right? I dont think so. Not from my experience. If you are so elite and want the best new tech? Sure, go ahead and buy it. Does it justify ur brand new expensive card? Having better tech or tech only you have access to lol? Its not the console war mate. We are all on the same team here. Console users hate when 1 of their games goes to another platform. When others get to enjoy it. Dont be like that. Again, FSR 3 works fine on my PC, i see 0 issues with it so far. Even with the fan made mods!
Happy to still be in the “I hate fake frames, even the ones from AMD” camp John, don’t worry.
I like how the comments completely reaffirm the point of the article, most of the comments are little children crying complaining about things they don’t know or can’t have. Marvelous.
Exactly! Social media rewards what people want to hear not the truth. When you tell people the truth they get mad and reach for copium!
Fake frames increase latency and are a big no in multiplayer games. In certain SP games they can improve the smoothness, but for now they cannot replace real frames.
People are enjoying DLSS3 in Call of Duty right now
Not competitively they aren’t you f*king dullard. Take Papa John’s d*ck out of your ar*e, or mouth, you choose.
They are enjoying losing pathetically
This is what happens when you watch nothing but TechFluencers and become one.
It’s in human’s nature to root for the underdog, although, the internet is full of teenagers and low IQ rytards.
I remember I got dogpiled here for saying RT is going to only get bigger and more important. Some rytard brought in physx as a comparison, goes to show you how utterly braindead the average internet user is.
My advice is to not take anyone seriously, just imagine what their lives look like, have a laugh then move on.
Those frames John, they are still fake.
It changes nothing how much the chills push for it.
Just like it didn’t for the vaxx, the lockdown, etc.
If you want a world where everything is fake, everything is controlled by a small group of crooks, your choice, but don’t attack people not falling for it.
And yes, if a technology becomes more open, more generalized, more simple, it becomes more good.
The general advice for all devs should be : “do not waste time with this fake techno”.
But maybe for the devs already completely entrenched in Nvidia/AMD technos … it makes sense.
What is fsr and dlss ?? Never used it. Never needed it.
New gimmicks that give devs an excuse to do less than optimal optimization for their games
Or perhaps just a “promo sticker” to sell those gpus and games
When you are looking at this like that, what is not gimmick in computer graphic?
Basically anything that does not reduce quality or responsiveness aka upscalers and fake frames
Modern upscalers can get you in some cases better quality than native (especialy when you are using AI for image reconstruction learned from high quality source data). Also in many cases, the responsivness with frame generation is better than native because with Reflex you can achieve lower latency than you loose with FG. Yes, when you get 144FPS from base 80 FPS, you will have responsivness like with 80, but framerate will be fluent and the game will play like without FG just with better framerate.
There are of cause akso cases like you mentioned, but it is always about compromises. The only what matter is if gamer us satisfied with final result. I believe, that most people are capable of setting their games to get results they want.
Calm down John, beat da meat to some UE5 stuff, you’ll probably feel better after
Dark side of Unreal, Dark Side of RT, Dark Side of Nvidia. Dark Side of Value for money 4090.
The argument that presents the fake frames aka dlss 3, fsr 3 as same kind of optimization trick like culling, level of details, low sampling rate, etc is one of the most oxymoronic internet argument ever. They don’t produce input lag like fake frames do. Rather they help reduce it by improving performance. They also don’t produce artifacts and incompatibility issues with vsync. Some of these morons gonna cry in reddit someday for not being able to do well in esports titles because their holy precious fake frames aren’t giving them responsiveness that is required to do well in competitive titles.
it’s not being childish, it’s called human nature that utilizes the coping mechanism when EXCLUDED and relies on when INCLUDED, and the real drawback is not the increased input lag but the mindset of developers that will justify their poor rasterization performance by including the frame generation in their arguments and since the normality is the concept of majority thus it will become norm to optimize games even less by comparing them with each other. frame gen is not just an option like RTGO or Shadow maps, it will be a necessity.
Oh f*k off John, another hit piece on FSR. How about you tackle your own bias instead of the the perceived bias of others? Oh wait, you are taking money from old Green eyes. Zero journalism going on here, just paid for schilling.
Definitely. I’m sure that ATI was also paying me when I was rooting for its TruForm tech 😛
Yep, you’ll take money off any motherf*ker to say whatever they want. Nothing but a wh*re and a cheap one at that.
Yes but also no, AMD have the less laggy option. It’s not a perfect tech and never will be. For anyone but competitive twitch gamers the AMD implementation is viable. Nvidia have some work to do, it looks great and plays like sh*t.
The exclusivity to 40-series was *always* the problem. Nvidia marketed performance increases based on a software feature. When FG was first being announced, an Nvidia engineer even admitted it could be ported to 30-series albeit at reduced performance. FSR 3 only proves that FG doesn’t need to be exclusive to 40-series and that, other than the tops, resulted in zero practical hardware performance gains for mid-range and lower.
As for FG and all it’s iterations, there is increased latency. And both take a base FPS performance hit when FG is enabled which increases latency further than native. You say people don’t complain playing FG 60 with a base FPS of 30? Please. Any shooter is going to feel like a laggy slog on PC with a base FPS of 30 and there’s no way around that.
In many titles, FG will become a crutch that will lead to less optimization going forward.
As for RT, it *has* been a flop. Other than cascading reflections (namely mirrors, windows, and wet surfaces), many people can’t see a difference. Enable RT in the day time, clear weather in Cyberpunk, and tell me RT is worth the FPS loss. Screenspace reflections, ambient occlusion, other than their flaws (ie. Edge screen issues, or objects like guns in front of the render space) are largely indiscernable from RT. And their improvement is certainly not worth the crippling 50% loss in performance. A day will come that RT is the norm, but it’s not today. The hardware doesn’t exist yet to enable all RT features with passable performance for most gamers at a reasonable price. Dangling a $1600 GPU and putting it on a pedestal isn’t a solution.
Games marketed as having RT today are really just a mix of RT and rasterization. It’s way too early to have frames entirely rendered in RT. It may never be possible for mainstream gamers if there isn’t some future breakthrough that makes it possible to have incredibly faster GPUs while still affordable for mainstream gamers. So what we have for now is just RT implemented in small ways.
“Most”? Citation needed.
“Everyone”? Citation needed
Whereas your angry reaction in this article is perfectly legitimate?
As opposed to being at DSOG where the site owner, by his own recent admission in an article published here on 19th November, received his RTX 4090 free of charge courtesy of Nvidia.
“Most PC gamers are whiny little kids…”
Whereas you’re being totally adult and mature with that choice of words, right?
Are you okay, John? You appear to have been rather angry and emotional in this article. It seems you’re emotionally attached in some way to defending Nvidia from silly fanboys on the internet. Hopefully this isn’t an unfortunate consequence of you having received your RTX4090 free of charge from Nvidia as you revealed to us last month.
Nothing wrong with getting a free RTX4090.
Does it bias his reviews? Who knows.
What I do know is one would be less enthusiastic about how great this card is if one had to fork out over $2000 USD for it. Now that would bias my reviews actually spending that much money on a video card lol.
On the flip side John understands only a small percentage of people have these cards and for the past few months he’s been slamming these developers left and right.
He also tests multiple configurations on a variety of cards and cpus for the rest of us.
Im trying to see it from many angles.
Agreed, and to clarify just in case anybody misinterprets my earlier comment, I’m certainly not suggesting or implying any impropriety on John’s part.
It’s more so that it’s simply not a good look for a site owner to be publicly slamming fanboys of a company whose chief competitor happens to be the company that gifted you a $2000 product.
To have done so in such an emotionally charged and disrespectful manner (“Most PC gamers are whiny little kids…”) made it appear even worse. This article is a real low-point for DSOG, in my opinion.
I hear ya man and agree it’s not the best look.
However.
PC Gamers can be extremely whiny. Video card fans start behaving like Packers Vs Bears or Democrat Vs Republican, lol.
Look how the industry treats pcgaming and pc gamers. Probably the most exploited bunch. Not even console gamers get this much devaluation from both hardware and software makers the way pcgamers do. At some point all legit criticism starts sounding like whinning because most pcgamers move on despite being treated like second class citizen over and over
How exactly are pc gamers threated as second class citizens?
https://youtu.be/YCnw5zxmMxs?feature=shared
https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/here-are-the-worst-optimized-pc-games-of-2023/
Hundreds of games (or maybe more) are releasing for PC each year. And because of few rush ports you are feeling as second class? You should try to be more practical than emotional. Also these games are updating and getting better through time. But yes it’s good to critisize their releases. And we also can vote for them with our wallets. On the other side, fame development for each combination of HW and SW is not possible and there is no way to catch and repair each error. The only thing, which get me pissed off, are stuttering issues due to real yime shader compilation. Such obvious problems should be solved before game release.
True that! If John had also framed his observations that way (“PC gamers” or better yet, ‘A vocal minority of PC gamers’) then there naturally wouldn’t be this degree of pushback. He instead used the words “Most PC gamers”. That’s the issue.
All. Most. Some. Well, we all fall victim to framing our opinions in absolutes sometimes, but no biggie I kinda get the jist when people do it.
One thing for sure, us PC gamers are getting treated like an ugly pimple faced red headed stepchild.
“PC gamers are getting treated like an ugly pimple faced red headed stepchild”
Such is the way of things…
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/18b48dbd85b573e141086432a25e9ee136533803bc310047afc056eca39ba3a3.jpg
John needs to install the emoticon plug-in so we can just click the crying smiley, omg, etc….
At least where are the one that didnt pay subs on top of buying a game just t o play our games online and getting ‘cloud saves’
Except it’s not a minority, it’s the majority
Just read the comments of any YouTube video by Hardware Unboxed this year ….. The more negative the video, especially when it comes to Nvidia the more views and comments they get
I’m certain AMD also paid us to build a $3000 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D PC system 😛 . I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we always buy our stuff. Hell, we even buy most of the games for our PC Performance Analysis articles. So… I don’t want to be that guy… but we can afford more than one RTX4090 😛 .
Also, we could have simply hided the fact that NVIDIA sent us the RTX3080 and RTX4090. We didn’t because… well… we don’t have anything to hide. NVIDIA simply offered to send us its flagship GPUs without anything in return. That’s why we agreed on it. Oh, and we’ve also heavily criticized the green team for lots of things (like the first versions of DLSS which looked atrocious). Or our article about the RTX2080Ti that it was not a 4K GPU as NVIDIA advertised. Another example are some articles in which we said that the “X” NVIDIA flagship could not run the “Y” game with 60fps. NVIDIA is not happy with these titles but they never asked us to change them (and even if they did, we wouldn’t change them). So, it’s not like we give them a free pass.
Lastly, the title and the content of this article will not offend those that don’t fall in this particular category. Here is an example. If someone tells me that “Most Greeks are completely a-holes, thieves, rapists and idiots”, if I’m not one of them, I won’t mind. I’ll simply tell him “We agree to disagree on this, but that’s your opinion”. And that’s it.
I’m certain AMD also paid us to build a $3000 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D PC system 😛 . I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we always buy our stuff. Hell, we even buy most of the games for our PC Performance Analysis articles. So… I don’t want to be that guy… but we can afford more than one RTX4090 😛 .
Also, we could have simply hided the fact that NVIDIA sent us the RTX3080 and RTX4090. We didn’t because… well… we don’t have anything to hide. NVIDIA simply offered to send us its flagship GPUs without anything in return. That’s why we agreed on it. Oh, and we’ve also heavily criticized the green team for lots of things (like the first versions of DLSS which looked atrocious). Or our article about the RTX2080Ti that it was not a 4K GPU as NVIDIA advertised. Another example are some articles in which we said that the “X” NVIDIA flagship could not run the “Y” game with 60fps. NVIDIA is not happy with these titles but they never asked us to change them (and even if they did, we wouldn’t change them). So, it’s not like we give them a free pass.
Lastly, the title and the content of this article will not offend those that don’t fall in this particular category. Here is an example. If someone tells me that “Most Greeks are completely a-holes, thieves, rapists and idiots”, if I’m not one of them, I won’t mind. I’ll simply tell him “We agree to disagree on this, but that’s your opinion”. And that’s it.
Couldn’t agree more with the article. You speak the truth, most people don’t like the truth, people on the internet like to take the rational role to be viewed as liked and ultimately neutral.
“we always buy our stuff”
“NVIDIA sent us the RTX3080 and RTX4090”
Pick one. Both can’t be true.
“we could have simply hided the fact that NVIDIA sent us the RTX3080 and RTX4090. We didn’t because… well… we don’t have anything to hide.”
You absolutely did the right thing to have been transparent about it. Ethics in journalism and all that.
He’s a born liar so both are true in his head dependant on who he is telling the ‘story’ to.
Oh now we’re playing with words. OK OK, I’ll play along as it will increase the number of comments 😛 . We have 10 GPUs and two of them were from NVIDIA. We also have a PC system with over 20 components. Actually, we also bought the entirety of the i9 9900K system so add 20 more components. But you know what? Let’s go one step further. We also bought the entirety of the i7 4930K system. So that’s 20 more components. Add to this the monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers and we get close to 75. So we’ve bought 97% of our PC hardware.
Shame.GIF , Shame.GIF
“Oh now we’re playing with words”
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f7f13c01bf86f604917fab12457a766d3d0bd67a3a0f9b3409766b1143d7a4c1.jpg
What would be cool is a write up with pictures how you test a game, all the work that goes into it.
Do you have a couple PC’s where you have to swap things out nonstop, or do you have a row of computers already set to go?
I’d love to see a vid “documentary” on what goes into it all.
Not a denial through eh John. 😉
We all know that you buy almost all of your hardware and games. You’re not PCGAMER. He’s simply saying that it would have been more accurate to say that you buy almost all of your hardware instead of saying you buy all of your hardware.
Lol yet rhe gpus are like 60% of the cost of the entire build.
You’re supposedly an author/writer – words are very important in that field. If you can’t hang, hire an editor.
Actually both can be true.
I buy all my own stuff.
I receive gifts once in a while.
However, I noticed the same thing you did, his wording was a bit off but didnt try to pick it apart cuz I got it.
So therefore all of your stuff won’t have been bought by you!
The way you pick things apart remind me of all my ex wives, wtf. LOL
Yes, dear!
I mean he did come off as emotionally charged, but if you look at this reddit thread, you can see just how emotionally charged the ppl commenting against him truly are, they absolutely do prove his point to a solid T:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/18upoee/amd_fsr_30_has_exposed_the_ugly_truth_about_most/
If I could comment on that thread, I’d be calling them all a bunch of whiny little C’s, because they think they know better, when they don’t (it’s reddit, they always think they are hot sh*t on there).
In my industry I can’t accept a 50$ gift card or lunch from a vendor, even though I make no decisions about their contract. Just the effect of word of mouth to management from me for such a gift is enough that I have to refuse it.
This guy accepts gifts 40x that value, and his entire business, its entire reputation, is giving his opinion on the vendor.
Game media is such a joke that readers will say there’s nothing wrong with even the clearest conflict of interest.
The article itself is silly. Nobody online vocally celebrates the 1000$ graphics cards features that none of them can afford to make an opinion on? What a mystery. A company releases something similar that normal people can actually use and form an opinion on… Wonder what could cause an upwelling of support?
I own a lot of NVIDIA shares so they cannot be wrong and they offer the way games were meant to be played.
No, he’s actually got a point.
It’s been a few years since I was last on here, but I have been banned on r/PCgaming multiple times for speaking my mind, and it made me realise two things:
Reddit is a complete and tuter iradeemable cespool of armchair idiots who like to sound smart.
People willingly form a hivemind so they can deny the realities we face in order to feel “safe” (even if they claim they aren’t a special snowflake, they act like one by forming said hivemind).
I myself see the whole use of AI and fake frames as a band-aid tool, yet people welcome it, without regarding the path Nvidia has chosen for us (we used to have brute force as an option with our cards and well, now we don’t, because games are now being designed purely for AI usage, not brute forcing and as a result we get objectively bad perf).
I find it quite hypercritical that people who hated it before now suddenly like it, or even warm up to the idea of using it, because it reminds me exactly of why we ended up in the mess when Horse armor showed up on the scene, or how Epic still gets defenders, because ppl eventually warmed up to the idea that “freebies ain’t so bad” (sh*t is still sh*t, even if it’s given away for free on a bad service, yet ppl like to argue against that for some insane reason).
The way John wrote this article is that it reads like a personal blog, and I feel like he should have written it better with more composure and less emotion, but his point still stands, ppl on PC gaming just like consoles, and especially on Reddit of all places, are indeed a bunch of whiny ppl (yes even those who argue that MT’s or DRM is good are in fact whiners themselves, they just don’t want to admit that).
People hate what someone else says because they fear they may be right, and history proves this time and time again, and we’re seeing it now, just with a community that likes to think they are all insanely intelligent, but are also very contradictory.
John hasn’t been getting enough nude mods lately
From my POV is not a “community” being whiny, is the astauding amount of shills, bots and r3tarded fanboys along the now common proud Clown World denizen found nowdays in any comment section.
Coupled that with the many, underwhelming to say the least, products being released (handware and video games) the also now commong amount of BS the video games companies pull and there is genuine cause to “whiny” although is drag down by the r3tarded musings of the shills, bots and other clowns.
Awful take. Nvidia charged ludicrous prices for access to their frame generation. Amd just made it open source. All of the bad press nvidia has gotten they deserved.
Just buy an amd gpu and stop crying.
Hahahha buddy… I run nvidia and intel. I’m sorry you’re a simp, who doesn’t like competative prices?!?! Lol like why does it make me crying to STATE that nvidia is greedy. We all know it’s true. Amd is greedy as well, they just also support the open movement and that’s good for US. Dumb dumb.
The 4060 cost $300. Thats LESS than the 3060. Stop whining.
I mean if you don’t mind nvidia giving you the long long have fun bud. I prefer to realize when a company is greedy. Even still I run nvidia an Intel, I’m just not a simp like yourself.
Lol the nvidia schleps here are hilarious. Be an adult and just take a step back. All computer hardware is more expensive than it should or needs to be. If that doesn’t bother you, then you’re an idiot.
True and it’s not just gamers, so-called tech enthusiasts as well. Videocardz and TechPowerUp comment sections are currently nothing but AMD PR machines 24/7. The people who cried about DLSS and FG are the exact same who now praise FSR and FSR3.
Welp i specifically hunted for a 3080 when they were released, to play the upcoming CP2077 with RT. Oh boy i felt so efing dumb for doing it and spending all that money for a gimmick, that kills your framerate and gaming experience. Yes RT is a gimmick.
Said it a long time by now. Most So Called, pc gamers these days are just untechnical Retarded console trash, that b*tches all time, and Dont know sh*t!!
We Oldschool’ers are the Real Deal!
To hell with the cry Nancys. Just POS garbage that shouldent go near a Pc👎
Since this article is attacking the majority of PC gamers with inflammatory rhetoric I will comment on some of what got us all to this point.
Oftentimes both Publishers and hardware manufacturers are deceptive with PC gamers. Anyone who has been gaming for a while knows this and you learn to be skeptical and wary of just taking their word for what they say. You have to at least try to not get cheated.
Edit: If I’m being told that using DLSS 3 or FRS 3 will get me 60%, 80%, 100% more frames but there will be a downside then that I can understand. If I’m being told that I will get these massive improvements in performance with no downside then warning bells go off with me. I would rather play games rendered at native resolution. If I’m wrong to want that then I will only be hurting myself and not anyone else.
Wrong. Nvidia was NEVER misleading with their marketing, they ALWAYS labeled clearly what was FG and what wasn’t!
You somehow managed to entirely miss the point of my comment. It is common for Nvidia to be misleading and deceptive in marketing. Do you remember the GTX 970 fiasco. Even after they settled the Class Action Lawsuit out of court they still never changed the packaging on the cards to explain exactly what the 4GB really was. They can’t be trusted so I’m skeptical and wary of what they say.
btw I will save you the effort of calling me an AMD fanboy next. I’ve been building my own gaming rigs for 16 years now and used exclusively Nvidia GPUs. Hell, I even bought a 970 right when they released before the news broke about the video RAM issues. I considered it a really nice card both before and after the news broke but I didn’t like the deceptiveness in marketing.
Yep. The 970 is a great example. I had an 970 MSI my self, it was a great card for the price but the 3.5G issue was indeed a ridiculous fiasco that could have been avoided, but they can’t be honest to save their lives.
Anyone that blindly believe either NVIDIA or AMD is asking to be fleeced.
AMD is also guilty of deceptive marketing. For instance calling the FX 83xx 8 core CPUs when they were really 4 Core CPUs with a broken implementation of SMT/hyperthreading which also got them sued and they were forced to settle …..
That’s a really bad article from you John.
/smh
Even worse responses in the comments
you’ve summed it all up
I completely agree with the spirit of what you’re saying. However, you really need to make a distinction between what people say on social media and what the vast majority of people saying real life. For the past year And a 1/2 the social media tech space has been full of groupthink, resentment, and just general intellectual laziness when it comes to Nvidia. But absolutely none of that is representative of what gamers in the real world actually do. The r t x 40 launch has been extremely successful, over 10% of all gamers have one in a little over a year. But you wouldn’t know that from watching youtube or reading Twitter. All the people you describe in this article are an obnoxious Vocal minority on the internet, the people who can afford an rtx40 card and turn on Frame gen all the time ARENT MSKING SOCIAL MEDIA COMMEMTS ABOUT IT. Social media doesn’t reward messages that are actually true or representative of the real world opinions. Social media represents what the lowest common denominator WANTS TO HEAR.
This article just got dsogaming blocked from my news feed.
You’re a perfect example of what he’s talking about. Classic example of social media rewarding. What you want to hear and not the actual truth
You’re a moron. It isn’t gamers flip flopping over FSR 3.0. It’s about the sh*t that the article is in general.
A part of it has to do with hating something they can’t obtain like you said, but I think some of it also has to do with people having a hard time embracing anything that’s new and difficult to comprehend.
Almost every creation in the past that was groundbreaking or game changing in every aspect of life has always experienced a great number of unjustified backlash (stereoscopic 3D and VR for example). And often times those people change their tone years later in hindsight. It’s really more of a human nature flaw than a PC gamer one if you take all that into consideration.
i think opposite , people that own RTX4,
(included the most famous channelsaccounts)
is not able to understand the happyness and the joy
of who before can’t play some games (1925fps),
but now thanks to FSR3+FG +nukem9puredarklukefz
can play all them 1080P Ultra 60fps
Because if you have RTX2,and you not want pay $500800€ in some countries for RTX4 because for you is NOT a good deal…
But then come FSR3+FG + mods
and you can run Alan wake 2 with patchtracing,RDR2 ultra 60fps,DSRemake,Starfield etc.
Then you feel happy,can play them.
Then if people they want can call it “Fake Frames” or “Latency” and can say all times they want that is not “the same experience”
yes ok this is true,but people with RTX2 not care that,people with RTX think :
CAN i PLAY this game ?
Before can’t,NO
But now FSR3+FG i can i’m happy
and it’s FREE,0€ not cost $500800€ same RTX4,that is the most important thing for real games,and not influencers or nvidia advertising medias.
For 5 years,all medias broken gamers balls by idolatrate the incredible ps4 “checkboard upscaling techs” or dlss3 for RTX4…
and for these things people must pay $500€
But now that RTX2 users can enjoy FSR3+FG for FREE pay $0€ is not ok?
bahh…
Sorry John but “PC gamers – and people in general” Doesn’t give a f*k about this.
This article is mostly true PC gamers are in too much denial to admit it.
The hive mind boo-ed fake frames with DLSS 3 but are ok with fake frames with FSR 3.0
Brah, we haven’t had the widespread implementations of FSR3 on their non-RDNA3 GPUs, for everyone to experience how good or bad it really is and to love or hate on it on the basis of quality. What we have right now is really only positive sentiment of its open sourcing, which screams white flag to me, AMD are trying to make the best (PR) they can out of an obviously worse feature.
Really riled up the knuckle draggers among us with this one. Bravo tbh. Very entertaining.
grow up and stop whining
You seem confused because you take what accounts post on the internet as the genuine opinions of real people. Why did accounts largely stop complaining about fake frames when FSR3 came out? Because fake frames were an AMD marketing narrative aimed to devalue DLSS 3 as long as AMD had no competing tech. The moment FSR 3 was ready or likely a bit earlier the narrative was updated. AMD does this with every nvidia exclusive feature, until those features stop being exclusive and then suddenly they’re good features to have. All upscaling was a bad thing before FSR 1. Using temporal sampling for it was still bad until FSR 2 came out. And now FSR 3 can do fake frames so finally even interpolation is okay, too.
Please understand that AMD has an army of shills all over the internet and their playbook gets updated regularly with new lines to parrot in every youtube comment section, reddit and 4chan thread. The pattern is particularly obvious on 4chan because of the sheer volume of “discussion” leads to more blatant repetition of the same lines, even within the same thread. Once you pick up on it you cannot unsee. Few companies shill as aggressively and with as little regard for ethics as AMD. Sony and Microsoft will get pretty wild at times but not all the time. With AMD it’s all the time, a constant barrage, their shills never sleep. AMD is the most shilled company in the world.
I would say “PC gamers” who defend lazy ports with excuses like “Just play on a controller” or “I don’t see any stuttering lol” are one of the dumbest little ret@rds with zero knowledge.
Every time when the port is crap i see those rats defending this sh@t to the point that the developers are simply ignoring the issues.
As for FSR3 and FrameGen in general I think it’s mostly people who don’t know how the technology works that are happy to see FPS number go up and since most people have GPUs that are not RTX 400 or RX 6000 it is expected to see a lot more happy comments about the technology if they can run it on a GTX 1660.
Add “just use dlss/fsr/fake frame for this utterly unoptimized turd game” on the list of new excuses. And yes it’s mostly, not all, but mostly people who never had pcgaming experience from their childhood. They are the ones who get into pcgaming and immediately become trend chasers of gimmicky fake fps enhancer techs that give their shitbrain an illusion of improved fps.
I have a 2k 240hz monitor and I appreciate FG especially in forza horizon 5. Most people are just envious and dishonest or completely ignorant. If you don’t like nvidia you just have to buy a f*king amd gpu card and stfu.
Trash article
I see a lot of comments from those that changed their tune below.
Expose those frauds. Im here for the cookout
You is right,but you forgot to say we start also make music about frame generation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvmhY8z4Z20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWTzEF297HM
hahaha
It is totally reasonable to call RT a gimmick back then (as it started with only gimmicky support), and call it a feature now (as we have full path tracing and it now really makes a visible difference.i
Yep. It’s the nature of humans we call losers. There are a ton of them out there. Best pay them no mind.
i can tell you my experience:
i own RTX2 (i disagree to buy RTX34 for many reasons it’s not a good deal for me,i wait others future gpu)
so before i can’t play some games (the games run 1925fps) or can’t see pathtracing in alan wake 2…
Then after AMD release FSR3+FG and mixed out nukem9puredark, i can play forspoken 69fps,i can see patchtracing in alan wake 2 , i can play dead space remake , red dead redemption 2 , starfield and many others at ultra 60fps,that before it’s not possible to do
So basically i feel to have an RTX4 but i have it FREE,
it’s the same emotions and happyness feel of when you buy a new gpu
and yes i not care if you or others medias say is fake fps or there is latency..
because i can play these games now,see what before i can’t see,and so i’m happy…
i not say that you is wrong,i understand your point of view,
but it looks like to me that you can’t understand the feeling of who own rtx2 (and dont have rtx4)
i was so happy that i donate also to puredark https://twitter.com/DavideSpagocci/status/1738949468014194914 even if him lock mod drm to RTX4 owners…
this so you can understand my feeling about FSR3
You (and digital foundry and capframe x and blablabla) insist to say that is not real frames,that is fake,that there is latency and blablabla
but you not understand that people not give a duck about that…
what is important for me is if I CAN PLAY THE GAME? yes or no?
Before with RTX2 can’t,because Nvidia make it be exclusive to RTX4,but RTX4 is not free it cost $500800€ in some EU countries
THEN come AMD with FSR3+FG, and mods (nukem9+puredark or lukefz)
And so me with RTX2 can PLAY THE GAMES i want to play at 60FPS 1080P ultra
this is awesome,is happyness.
This is what people that talk much about RTX4 not understand.
and this happyness make me also create this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvmhY8z4Z20
but i not do for profit or views or follow (i not care that)
i do it for happyness,for CELEBRATION
because i was happy that now i can play the games i want to play.
So in your article,you miss and not understand this feeling…
All People that have rtx4 will never understand the feeling of who have RTX2 and see 30FPS go to 60FPS without to pay f****g $500800€ for that
As a 40-series owner, I have done extensive testing with FG and have found unless you are getting at least 50-60fps before enabling FG it’s gonna feel like sh*t due to the latency and input lag of 30fps. So if one is going to use it on a older / lower spec card keep this in mind.
This is why we cant have nice things
You’re making the assumption that anyone listens to you guys on the internet.
Or the King Troll that feeds them here.
His hypocrisy knows no limits. He writes these clickbait garbage articles to feed the comments section and get the clicks.
He “pays for 97% of his hardware” off the ad revenue of the same people he trashes on freely and they idolize him for it.
I truly appreciate your technique of writing a blog. I added it to my bookmark site list and will
Well it’s easy to make a whole bunch of people sound like idiots when you start with a sweeping strawman generalisation
FWIW I don’t like any of the upscaling techs, the game with implementations of all 3 I’ve tried them all on my 3070Ti M, Satisfactory, they all look worse than native (even at double the fps), ranging from sometimes noticeable (XeSS) to off puttingly horrible, with DLSS by far the worst, when everything on a fast moving conveyor just disappears into a slightly transparent smear.
The only thing they’re good for so far is silent running, reducing power draw and thus fan noise when under a fps cap.
Oh you disclosed the secret truth, be careful John of the AMDefence mob
How come hes talking about gullible and whinny gamers judging
something before they try it and most people in the comments took
offense to what he said. Why are they so defensive lul
You can say the obvious thing (your favorite company has lost!!) but no don’t say it! Its against the narrative even though AMD or any other PC parts provider only care their profits, defend them till your last breath on earth
Reading comments below I see the situation is even worse than I tought
You know we’ve hit amdesperation levels when people below say dlss and dlss 3 are the worst solutions in the market.
Im soo glad I dont have an ego or pride or support any billion or trillion dollar corporation like people here. Im poor, the only thing I want and need are good products that I use to play my vidya games.
Todays motto is “we don’t need PT”
Of course they only care about profits, just like you only care about how much your employer pays you. If another employer comes along and offers you 10% more you’ll take it
Same thing with Nvidia, they had a choice between making low margin consumer devices and high margin server and AI products and they chose the high margin. Every person here would do the exact same thing in they were running Nvidia.
When they release the pricing of the Super line I’ll be able to tell where they are in the production que for the A100 and H100 ….. If the price is still as high then they have a long way to go before they fulfill their orders for A100 and H100 devices. If the prices are lower then it will mean they have caught up with demand and can now “afford” to make more consumer devices
Pretty sure the majority of the people praising FSR3 are not even AMD owners. The only FSR3 mod released for free works on RTX cards, not AMD.
Exactly what I’ve been saying for months ….. It’s no secret that most PC gamers are whiny little b*tches and spend most of their time being miserable ……
That said I still don’t care for frame generation or DLSS lower than Quality all that effort to increase graphic fidelity and then lower it again makes no sense when often time you can get better graphics and FPS just by turning a few settings down a notch
Thank you but nobody actually cares about FSR. It only exist so AMD can use it in their marketing materials 🤣. We all keep that garbage turned off 💪
AMDumbs come in many shapes and forms—many of which are on several year old, low end rigs or completely rigless.
But the one thing that stands out amongst them is their hypocrisy, double standards and unyielding commitment to hate on any feature, tech or hardware AMD doesn’t have—until they have it, then as per the usual custom, it automatically, over night becomes the second coming of Jesus.
Just watching them coming out of the woodwork in the early comments, desperately cobbling together excuses merely reinforces the truth highlighted in this article. Great job, i’m here for the cookout.
John chillax, act like a professional this is not a good look for you.
incel post
This article does make the mistake of assuming the people against framegen at first are the same as those for it now, but the general sentiment seems correct.
I see many people who have no idea what they’re talking about when it comes to computer graphics speaking with the utmost certainty when they should’ve been listening.
You have to take gamer’s reception to new OPTIONAL features with a grain of salt. In time, if a feature is good, they’ll come around.
seems you are the w*ker kid who cries that now anyone can play with gforce 2060 what you play with rtx 4090.
seems you are the wncker kid who cries that now anyone can play with gforce 2060 what you play with rtx 4090.
“anyone can play with gforce 2060 what you play with rtx 4090”
Nobody with RTX 2060 can do that. 🙂
“anyone can play with gforce 2060 what you play with rtx 4090”
Nobody with RTX 2060 can do that. 🙂
Well, some got a point. FSR is for everybody to use, while DLSS is locked on the NVIDIA hardware. Open source will always win in consumers’ eyes.
As for the fake frames, I will always want pure rasterization power of course, however this makes little difference when devs don’t bother to actually optimize their games, because they think they can get away with it, because modern GPUs are “so strong” anyway.
How many years will it take for fsr to win over dlss? Rdna7?
I remember people buying 5700xt with close prices to Turing counterparts just because of this: we don’t need new tech, we support our favorite company
Today Turing is still a fine gpu on the other hand you can’t render AW2 on 5700xt properly due to lack of mesh shader support, not even need to mention of no RT support
And still today techtubers fueling this behavior deliberately with AMD freebies or due to their lack of tech knowledge
Yeah today its fine to upscale/FG your game because AMD is NOW supporting it
Today they will say same things about path tracing: we don’t need it till AMD supports it, this is typical fanaticism
Great article, thank you John
the issue is not because DLSS 3 is exclusive to 40 series. more like it was bad because the tech is coming from nvidia. for the most part it is a simple fanboysm. for some youtuber out there they simply coming up with what people want to hear
Almost all fanboys talk about he’s brand without try the last hardware I know guys that can’t afford last CPU and start a fight ,based only YouTube videos … One video lol 😂
Its exposed Nvidia scummy practice of holding latest tech to sell their latest overpriced product while also getting rid of their own wihout bother about real performance upgrades (4060 Ti.. ehmm) . From Physx, GameWorks, G-Sync, DLSS and now FSR3.
And regarding to Ray Tracing I stil called it unnecessary due to performance penalty while other solution exist and not much difference being made graphically.
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I wonder what these same AMD fanbois are going to say when they find out FSR 4 only works on 7000 series and up GPUs and everyone else will be stuck with FSR 3 that will no longer be upgraded and improved?
AMD didn’t add currently unused “AI Cores” (Their version of Tensor Cores) to the 7000 series for nothing. They are obviously planning on going to an AMD hardware only implementation of upscaling and frame generation just like Nvidia has had for the last 3 generations. AI is simply the superior method for upscaling and frame generation and AMD knows it even if they currently pretend it’s not.
proprietary technologies are trash and nvidia abandons it’s own customers
I still think Frame Generation is far from perfect, and in it’s current state not really usable for an ideal gaming performance! So yes, fake frames are still cr4p! I tried it on RTX3090TI, and it was cool to see gaining ~2X performance, but the “gameplay feel and experience” was actually inferior to for example DLSS2 with nearly half the frames.
Stop assuming EVERYONE just switched sides and are now all like “Frame Generation is the best thing ever!”. That being said, yes there are many noobs who have little idea about how tech works, and are now excited to see FSR3 Frame Generation nearly doubling their performance.
I still think Frame Generation is far from perfect, and in it’s current state not really usable for an ideal gaming performance! So yes, fake frames are still cr4p! I tried it on RTX3090TI, and it was cool to see gaining ~2X performance, but the “gameplay feel and experience” was actually inferior to for example DLSS2 with nearly half the frames.
Stop assuming EVERYONE just switched sides and are now all like “Frame Generation is the best thing ever!”. That being said, yes there are many noobs who have little idea about how tech works, and are now excited to see FSR3 Frame Generation nearly doubling their performance.
very informative articles or reviews at this time.
You should rather be complaining about the greedy approach from Nvidia to make it exclusive to the 40 series, while every RTX card is capable of frame generation! Instead of that you are talking about why people didn’t want to buy the new card; so in essence this is another corpo-paid article, shame on you!
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Gonna be honest with you, i didn’t even know what DLSS or FSR was until these days, because i still game casually on a GTX 1060, and i think John is upset because now the peasants can enjoy the “fake frames” lmao.
I personally couldn’t care less about Frame Generation and I’m not going to use it, but your personal BIAS is getting ridiculous at this point, and degrading this website content severely.
I suggest taking a long vacation, while reading all articles you been posting the last few years, maybe then it will thick how much of an assole and biased you been towards NVidia.
This is no longer a source for accurate information, since all you see in front of you is NVidia, even Digital Foundry is doing a better job nowadays, since they got called out for misinformation.
Reading articles from a NVidia fanboy gets exhausting after a few years, especially on a website we looking for accurate information, instead I’m stuck reading this blind rants and offensive articles with nothing useful said.
Now the trick is to enable FSR on the games that were written w/o it, but on an NVIDIA GPU.
Now that would be something!
Well, if people who couldn’t use it were hating it and now they say they’re were wrong, I don’t see a issue, since this is how we evolve. But looks like you’re worrying about people that doesn’t deserve that… The posers.
Stop whining yourself or you’ll be just on the same level of those you criticize.
Just saying.
Paying throuh the nose for supposedly cutting edge hardware, only to not manage stable framerates (which should be 60+, but I can tolerate lower if smooth), even with fake frames and fake resolutions is bullshit no matter which corpo people choose to praise.
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Problem is much more complex that that.
The internet is being homogenized into only a few places. Lets take PCMR.
This sub mixes experienced techs, older experienced hobbyists, mid levels, noobs, EVERYONE together. Now add in the marketers and sycophants that realize how to take advantage of this, in this singular location, and you have a mixture of everything with nothing concrete. Oh yeah, you really want that AMD gpu with no future tech and less than 10 percent market share /s Gimme a break.
Now these brainwashed noobs dont have access to the tech… They dont necessarily initially think its “bad” but the PAID marketers and sycophants sure af make sure they do.
PCMR was able to leapfrog respected sites, where knowledge was verified. Now these sites are all going down, while the hobby-destroying pcmr gets to continue doing what they do.