There has been a lot of controversy surrounding the performance of Project CARS on AMD’s graphics cards. And this whole thing forced Slightly Mad Studios to issue an official statement about it. As the statement reads, for the past few days, erroneous information posted on Reddit and other websites has spread misinformation with regards to Project CARS’ performance on systems using AMD GPUs.
In order to correct the wrongful assumptions regarding Project CARS’ performance on AMD GPUs, the MADNESS engine and the degree of involvement from our third-party technical partners, Slightly Mad Studios pointed out the following facts:
• Project CARS is not a GameWorks product. We have a good working relationship with nVidia, as we do with AMD, but we have our own render technology which covers everything we need.
• NVidia are not “sponsors” of the project. The company has not received, and would not expect, financial assistance from third party hardware companies.
• The MADNESS engine runs PhysX at only 50Hz and not at 600Hz as mentioned in several articles
• The MADNESS engine uses PhysX for collision detection and dynamic objects, which is a small part of the overall physics systems
• The MADNESS engine does not use PhysX for the SETA tyre model or for the chassis constraint solver (our two most expensive physics sub-systems)
• The MADNESS engine does not use PhysX for the AI systems or for raycasting, we use a bespoke optimised solution for those
• The physics systems run completely independently of the rendering and main game threads and utilises 2 cores at 600Hz
• The physics threading does not interact with the rendering, it is a push system sending updated positional information to the render bridge at 600Hz
• Any performance difference with PhysX would not be reflected with differences in comparing rendering frame rates. There is no interaction between PhysX and the rendering
• Overall, PhysX uses less than 10% of all physics thread CPU on PC. It is a very small part of the physics system so would not make a visual difference if run on the CPU or GPU
• Direct involvement with both nVidia and AMD has been fruitful in assisting with the game performance at various stages of development. Both AMD and nVidia have had access to working builds of the game throughout development, and they have both tested builds and reported their results and offered suggestions for performance improvements.
• Testing of the game with different driver versions has produced a variety of performance results on both nVidia and AMD hardware. This is entirely to be expected as driver changes cannot always be tested on every game and every card, and this is the reason why both companies produce game-specific driver profiles, to ensure that they can get the best out of the game.
• Project CARS does not use nVidia specific particle technology – the system we use is a modified version of the same technology we used on the Need for Speed : Shift and Shift Unleashed games, and was entirely developed in-house. The reason the performance drops when there are a lot of particles on screen is simply because processing a large number of particles is very expensive.
Those interested can purchase this game from GreenManGaming.
John is the founder and Editor in Chief at DSOGaming. He is a PC gaming fan and highly supports the modding and indie communities. Before creating DSOGaming, John worked on numerous gaming websites. While he is a die-hard PC gamer, his gaming roots can be found on consoles. John loved – and still does – the 16-bit consoles, and considers SNES to be one of the best consoles. Still, the PC platform won him over consoles. That was mainly due to 3DFX and its iconic dedicated 3D accelerator graphics card, Voodoo 2. John has also written a higher degree thesis on the “The Evolution of PC graphics cards.”
Contact: Email
This is like any war…don’t know which side lies more.
One thing is sure in my personal experience with hardware…Every AMD “sponsored” game runs incredibly well on my Nvidia GPU…yet any Nvidia “sponsored” game in any way runs like crap on AMD hardware. Coincidence?
Also I read this and my thoughts stand: http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/367qav/mark_my_word_if_we_dont_stop_the_nvidia_gameworks/
Yeah, this is my experience too…
I don’t know man , a guy who is from PCMR’s staff did a test a while ago with FC4 and latest drivers and it was legit from both sides
http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/36d73b/should_we_make_this_a_thing/crcy0b4
http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/36d73b/should_we_make_this_a_thing/crcyqg5
it wasnt as smooth when it launched tho, they did fix it later with patch. but it shouldn’t be acceptable to launch games unplayable and later fix when no one care. same goes to watch dogs its silky smooth now but it was a shuttering mess at launch
? agree however this isn’t Nvidia’s fault its clearly Ubi’s.
They are known for releasing broken games , they even did that on consoles with AC:U. They let the consumers to do their QA sadly..
i dont know how it works but there were many senior developers from sony and ea criticizing blackbox nature of gameworks which blocks any optimization on hardware other thn nvidia. i just want to play games smoothly on my preferred hardware when im spending almost same amount of $. i do have an nvidia card but it was mostly for physix(it dont works with newer drivers 🙁 ).
edit: twitter.com/repi/status/452812842132332544
https://twitter.com/repi/status/452812842132332544
You forgot to mention current nvidia HW, owners of older nvidia HW have often same problems with gameworks games as AMD users. Just simple way how nvidia makes sure their loyal customers will buy new graphic every year.
You are not saying anything new…we have heard and experienced this many times!
We all know, Nvidia is greedy…PERIOD!
AMD tries to play a fair game and always keeps things fairly open/open-sourced!
Mantle, TrueAudio, Forward+… says hi.
mantle is now vulkan thts opensource, almost every amd tech can be optimized for nvidia as most of them are open-source. but nvidia tech cant be optimized for amd unfortunately. problem isnt tht the games are using nvidia tech, problem lies due to those tech breaking performance on amd cards.
You don’t need to break performance for AMD GPU. It runs like cr@p by default. 😀
not sure if u tolling but all amd evolve games run silky smooth for me, also almost every non-gamework game i dont have issues accept unity.
Examples? I own every recent major game and have had no issues with my dual R9 290’s.
Point here are the advantages/disadvantages of using one manufacturer or the other. I’m sure with both your 290s you’ll be able to run every game on ultra for years.
TrueAudio and Forward+ as many other technologies are part of Radeon SDK with no restrictions to the source code distribution, samples nor documentations! TrueAudio runs very well on CPU if there is no HW available, HW IP is not even made by AMD, but it is from tensilica!
This man speaks the truth
The internet needs more people like you.
That’s absolute bullsh1t that every AMD sponsored game runs well on NVIDIA cards. What about Sleeping Dogs at launch ran better on a 7970m laptop card than a GTX680 and was like that for four months of drivers from NVIDIA to close the gap?, People with a single 7970ghz ed desktop card were getting better performance than me with my dual card gtx690 despite the fact Sleeping Dogs was using both cards of my 690 and did have support with an SLI driver……
What about Hitman that would not go over 50fps on NVIDIA cards even if you paired an I7 with a gtx780, Titan or gtx690????.
What about Tomb Raider that was completely broken on NVIDIA cards where TressFX would gimp performance or tessellation caused the game to crash and ambient occlusion wasn’t working.
What about FarCry4 that’s an NVIDIA Gameworks game but runs better on AMD cards?.
What about Metro LL that’s an NVIDIA sponsored game but runs better on AMD cards?.
The real reason why AMD keep bitching about Gameworks is because it gets them off the hook for p1ss poor driver support, we went a whole six months without an official WQHL driver from AMD. That and because AMD can’t afford to support their own Gameworks program so try to score points by not being anti competitive and you have bought it hook line and sinker just like every other AMD only gamer scratching their heads wondering why games are running like ass and not realising driver support isn’t there. Tell me how were PCARS developers able to say they have had no contact from AMD about drivers for months without AMD not disputing that fact?.
Have you not seen how many games that are now asking for a 290 alongside a 770 or 760 for recommended settings even though they aren’t Gameworks titles?. Any idea why lots of developers that are not supporting Gameworks but at the same time asking for a 290 to run games with same settings as a 770 or 760?. Could it be because they already know driver support is p1ss poor.
Stop blaming other companies for the fact AMD are poor with drivers,
I hope this puts an end to this crazy conspiracy bs happening currently. Mainly by AMD users. Seriously, Reddit went totally crazy over this.
but why do we see Nvidia logos in the game if its not gameworks? i dont believe slightly mad on this statement.
yeah, that is odd since IIRC, sms/wmd said that no money changed hands between themselves and nvidia. Did nvidia give sms/wmd full support to create the drivers and game? If so, that is cool, but then sms/wmd way overdid it with thousands of nvidia banners at each track (bit of hyperbole for affect)!
Can you tell us which Gameworks features game use? PhysX is standalone SDK which can be used separately of all Gameworks features. So when it uses PhysX, it doesn’t mean they have contract on Gameworks.
It wont sadly
Reddit went crazy because they had evidence. The fact that maxwell cards run pcars so much better than AMD cards and even nvidias own kepler cards (700series) made people really pissed off about it. It finally brought to lite the fact that nvidia is running a very anti competetive company in a space that should be the opposite.
AMD didn’t prepare drivers for their GPUs and it’s NVIDIAs fault right? That’s your evidence?
The cards that SMS needed to optimize for are about 2 years old. There is no sense in creating a broken game, knowing it is broken the whole way and then expecting someone else to fix it for you.
It’s got nothing to do with SMS not optimising for AMD cards, how the hell do you think they got their game engine up and running on weak sauce AMD consoles?. AMD never produced a driver so the cards don’t recognise the game, just like if you don’t produce a cross fire or SLI driver the game won’t recognise two cards. This is AMD’s fault.
SMS claims amd produced a driver.
Either way, its the devs who should follow the APIs and optimize their crap. There aren’t that many arhitectures to deal with. GCN, Kepler, maxwel.
The developers only write the code , most of the optimisation comes from the drivers that AMD and NVIDIA make because it’s only them who understand the low level hardware. You need drivers, sure even without the drivers the AMD cards look to be running really poorly but AMD really should have been on top of that as that’s a big part of their business.
Their drivers are overly complicated because developers games are often broken. There are standards everywhere that wouldn’t require knowing how the low level hardware works. The driver code is often just fixing things developers made a mistake with.
As far as AMD performing badly, hardly true unless its a gameworks game. Even in gameworks games you see previously 250 dollar AMD cards beating 600 to 1000 dollar nvidia cards. Apparently only a fool would invest in nvidia and hope to last a year.
Well you are wrong , use your internet and verify everything I have said as I can’t be bothered linking it for you. Look at the fact AMD went six months without an official WQHL GPU driver.
Look at how CPU hungry AMD’s drivers are that ensures 280x drops frames below a 750ti when paired with an i3.
Look at how many non Gameworks games are asking for only a 770 or 760 for recommended NVIDIA settings while requiring a 290 from AMD for the same settings.
Look at how FarCry4 even with Gameworks runs better on AMD cards.
Look at how PCARS developers were able to openly criticise AMD for lack of support when developing the game and AMD didn’t refute this.
Lastly NVIDIA cards give great performance longer than a year.
That crap claim again.
NVidias GPUs drop frames with the i3 as well. It shows how intelligent nvidia users are when they can’t realize that the evidence they are using is not showing what they want. A 750ti is weaker and not bottlenecked by the i3. a 280x is stronger and is. the 280x therefore loses performance.
A game asking for a 770 and 290 could just mean that this is how far they tested. In those games lower spec GPUs still work fine.
Farcry 4 was patched after release to work well. it was not so great on either platform really.
PCARS developers later said that they were working with AMD.
Yeah, say that to the 780 giving 285 level performance.
I am not going to say any more other than read Eurogamer’s PC articles. The reason why more sites don’t cover it is because any time they benchmark a GPU they always say that they use an overclocked I7 to remove any CPU bottlenecks so the cards run at their best,.
You pair an i3 with a 280x and drop to as low as 30fps.
You pair an i3 with any NVIDIA GPU including even a weaker 750ti and stick closer to 60fps.
So it’s not crap if independent , big , well known websites are highlighting and making articles about the issue and showing it in action is it?
It doesn’t matter about 780 getting poor performance as I am not having a tit for tat p1ssing contest, I am simply pointing out the reason for poor AMD performance is their drivers. If PCARS developers hadn’t had any contact with AMD since October of last year then that’s why the game runs like ass and not Gameworks. AMD don’t contact PCARS developers after October of last year which is ironic because December of last year was our last official WQHL graphics driver and we went for six whole months with half arsed beta drivers for six months. There’s your problem and not “Wha Gameworks is gimping us conspiracy theories”
Who cares if 780’s performance isn’t what it should be, how the hell is that relevant to anything I am discussing?. Yes the performance isn’t what it should be and will likely be addressed in a WQHL graphics driver seeing as NVIDIA either has them ready for a game’s launch or usually fixed within a week of the game’s launch if some issue pops up that wasn’t taken care off before hand. Again I don’t see how 780’s performance is relevant to disproving AMD fanboys conspiracy theories about developers gimping performance on their cards?.
FarCry4 at launch still ran so much better on AMD hardware even with Gameworks settings enabled, so much so that GPU’s like 770 were tied in performance to 7870. The game did indeed run better on AMD
When AMD guys attempt to use Gameworks as the reason Watchdogs or Assassins Creed Unity running poor on AMD hardware at launch it’s bullshit. Even now I can’t get 60fps out of Watchdogs when driving no matter what settings I chose and I have an I7 2600 and GTX980. Before I had a 980 I used a 690 and could never get it to run on dual GPU’s and this is a legit paid for copy with all the up to date patches from Uplay and drivers from NVIDIA. If these are the games that AMD fans were using to “prove” Gameworks totally wrecked their performance then I don’t buy it because I also have dire performance with these games.
I also own an AMD PC with an A-10 7850k APU so am able to test each brand’s driver support for myself without having someone else tell me how it handles so I am not basing my opinions on hearsay.
Can I ask why all you AMD conspiracy theory guys never shout when you see non NVIDIA Gameworks games asking for a amd290 for recommended settings but only a 770 or 760 from NVIDIA to run the same settings because I think that goes a long way to showing who is to blame?. Why so many developers asking for a 290 to do the same work as a 770 or 760 despite there being a massive performance difference there?. Could it be because all these developers know that AMD hasn’t been producing drivers?.
Or why are you not complaining about the fact AMD took over 6 months to release a WQHL driver?.
Why do you not say anything when websites like Eurogamer say they can’t recommend an AMD GPU for a budget build because AMD’s drivers are far too CPU hungry so cards like a 280x drop to as low as 30fps when using an I3 or equivalent CPU while cards like 760 still manage 60fps using the same i3. AMD’s drivers are appalling at the minute.
Why do you not say anything when a Gameworks game like FarCry4 runs far better on AMD hardware even with Gameworks enabled?.
LOL yeah, the whole internet is raging about something that doesn’t even exist. FC4 runs like sh*t on AMD with GW on! Though many games run incredibly well on AMD until you turn on GW.
FarCry4 runs better on AMD cards with Gameworks features enabled. Also it’s not the “whole” internet, just salty AMD fans who would rather blame someone else as no one like admitting they may have purchased the wrong thing.
Are we conveniently ignoring the fact we went a whole six months without an official WQHL graphics driver from AMD?.
Are we forgetting that there has now been six high profile releases that don’t support Gameworks but asks for a 290 for recommended settings from AMD but only a 770 or 760 from NVIDIA?. Now keep in mind that these developers are also making their games run on AMD consoles yet the PC versions need a far more powerful AMD card just to run the same settings as the weaker NVIDIA cards. Is it a massive world wide developer conspiracy against AMD or could it be that all those developers haven’t had any contact from AMD about driver support so are reflecting that in their requirements?.
Of course AMD is bitching about Gameworks, it’s because they can’t afford to offer an alternative so are spinning it as anti consumer and how they want to be the “good guys”. Why can’t they just get their fcuking heads down and offer an alternative and if they feel NVIDIA isn’t being fair return the favour until an agreement can be made?.
NVIDIA is looking after it’s own consumers, it’s not whether these settings run better on NVIDIA because of course they are going to run better on NVIDIA, you honestly think they are going to spend money , time and resources trying to optimise around rival hardware which may mean that their hardware needs to run the software slower to compromise for AMD?. That’s not the debate, the debate is NVIDIA specifically gimping games like PCARS and it’s not true.
If AMD were to just sort out their drivers then this wouldn’t be happening
It really does not help Slightly Mad Studios case when we see Nvidia Logos plastered all over the game. It is even present in the console versions.
Probably because it DOES use PhysX. Maybe that was part of the deal with nVidia?
They’re claiming no sponsorship though. Having Nvidia logos all over the place is sponsorship. They’re lying…that or don’t know the meaning of words.
No its not sponsorship, nvidia have a deal thats says “you can use our physics system for free or a reduced price if you put our logo on your tracks” is not a sponsor ship, that makes it a deal not a sponsorship.
“”you can use our physics system for free or a reduced price if you put our logo on your tracks” ”
Actually, that’s the very definition of an sponsorship.
Yeah, that is actually how most sports, racing, and business sponsorships work.
Its a sponsorship deal, you ninny.
Yes because if you are going to do something really shady and support only one company with a back handed deal , the last thing you want to do is spray that companies name all over the place and attract attention to it. Why do AMD fans ignore all those games that are asking for a 290 for recommended settings from AMD but only a 760 or 770 from NVIDIA to run the exact same settings despite the fact not all of the games that have these massively mismatched requirements are Gameworks titles?. Nothing is said on that but AMD fans are quick to attack Gameworks because it’s a feature designed for NVIDIA cards for NVIDIA users.
AMD could do the exact same but the reason they don’t is because they can’t afford to which is why we went for over six months without an official WQHL driver and why developers are now asking for a 290 from AMD to run the same settings as a 770.
The first time I seen 290 and 770 in the same requirements I thought it was a typo, the second time I thought it was poor NVIDIA marketing, the third, fourth and fifth times I realised that the only constant in all of this is AMD. I then remembered that we hadn’t had an WQHL driver in 6 months.
Also do people ignore Gameworks games that run better on AMD hardware like say FarCry4?. Or Gameworks games like Watchdogs and AC that run like ass on NVIDIA cards as well?.
The real person to blame is AMD as they aren’t getting drivers out in time. Lets not pretend that AMD didn’t attempt to spoil the launch of Tomb Raider on NVIDIA cards by not letting NVIDIA get source code to the final game until after launch which meant TressFX ran like ass on NVIDIA cards for several months as well as crashing for a week after launch.
Or Sleeping Dogs that ran better on a single 7970ghz edition than a gtx690 despite the fact the game had SLI drivers and was taking advantage of dual GPU’s there was an artificial bottleneck which was so bad that even a mobile 7970 was able to outperform a desktop 680 in Sleeping Dogs and was only fixed after 4 months of NVIDIA drivers.
Or Hitman that wouldn’t break the 50fps barrier with an i7 and gtx680, 780, Titan or 690. All these benchmarks can be found on Tom’s Hardware and I know of the performance of these games as I bought every single one of them
So I get fed up when I see AMD fans blame NVIDIA, yes it’s sh1tty that NVIDIA are making effects that sometimes won’t even run on AMD cards but that’s not what’s causing AMD’s poor performance most of the time , it’s AMD’s on lack of software engineers to produce drivers. All these guys bitching about Gameworks would be perfectly happy if AMD were spending money on software engineers to produce AMD specific enhancements.
Funny that people crowdfunded this rubbish.
Well as customers what we care for most is a working product at the end, and unfortunately you guys failed us on AMD GPUs.
Why not blame AMD for letting you down with drivers? There’s not reason according to this post, it would run badly on an AMD card over an nVidia one. Apart from the hardware itself. We know the AMD cards are upto snuff, so I would look at the drivers being an issue. nVidia release game ready drivers with all major releases, which they did with PC.
Project cars beta builds had no issues but final build is so damn unplayable on my amd, how can tht be amd fault? why are beta working just fine? having nvidia logos al over the game doesn’t help it either
It doesn’t make any sense to blame AMD. The cards we’re talking about are readily available and have been for years, other devs from AAA to indie optimize for them all the time. There were no secrets kept from SMS. What you’re suggesting is like blaming Home Depot for your house having a bad blueprint.
AMD’s fault. Also Nvidia released a new driver just in time for Witcher 3 – i wonder then is AMD gonna release theirs lol.
Late i guess.
amd driver already coming this week, also if a driver is not release for some game doesnt mean it wont work, it may work with old drivers just fine
Interestingly enough Witcher 3 is Gameworks sponsored or whatever.
Are you dumb? It’s a GW title so of course their going to have their drivers out first.
Why seksual minority… I mean AMD minority always crying. There is options.
1) buy Nvidia
2) buy console
3) quit gaming
Blindly supporting AMD is not an option.
Nothing to see here, just another troll
AMD crybabies and their bs conspiracy theories. One gotta love those incompetent idi*ts.
Troll much with troll comments troll? Trololololol?
Couldn’t at all be the devs/Nvidia lying could it?
“• NVidia are not “sponsors” of the project. The company has not received, and would not expect, financial assistance from third party hardware companies.”
So there’s just Nvidia advertisements in the game intro and on every track because…why exactly?
I really dont know. Maybe because they are using middleware from nvidia? Or maybe Huang give bj to everyone in sm studios? What is your idea?
You tell me. You’re the one claiming conspiracy.
I should tell you what is your idea? Really? How $tupid are you?
You can make proper sentences first off.
Secondly you’re the one saying people are making conspiracies. What conspiracies? You act as though SMS and Nvidia have never been part of some pretty nefarious activities. SMS says Nvidia isn’t a sponsor yet…their logos are everywhere, AMD performance sucks, and they basically exclusively use Nvidia middleware.
Yet, no sponsorship. That’s not a conspiracy though, that’s just looking at facts and past dealings. So what are you talking about exactly?
There is some official statement. You are disproving it and making some theories about conspiracy against poor AMD. If this is not a conspiracy theory than what is it?
“You are disproving it and making some theories about conspiracy against poor AMD”
Where? I’m not disproving anything nor am I saying anything about AMD.
Paranoid much?
Yeah, i guess i really am paranoid much. I first thought you are one of those reta*ds who believe nvidia paid sms for crippling performance on amd hardware. My bad.
What BS conspiracy theories? The amount of toxic behaviour from nvidia, even to their own customers, is truly heinous. This would just be another entry in the “nvidia are c*nts” file.
How stupid that someone cannot understand how crucial PC independency is. Because it has no owner, no investor, the independency is the only quality that platform has. Take it away and youll get dead platform.
They are n??bs.
Don’t AMD cards run like sh*t with this game because this game is built around Physx? It’s not some fancy feature that you can turn on and off this time around, they actually use Physx to calculate almost everything and the game is designed that way.
Game runs like sh*t on Nvidia cards aswell if you disable GPU Physx.
guys how can driveclub maintain 30fps in heavy rain condition and my gtx 670 cant maintain 30fps in heavy rain with 1 car alone is this game poorly optimized in rain condition
If they are not sponsored by nvidia it should be no issue to kindly patch out the nvidia logos plastered all over the game.
Apparently no PhysX is being sent to the GPU, so I’d love to see the benchmarks you claim show “Game runs like sh*t on Nvidia cards aswell if you disable GPU Physx.”
“We have a good working relationship with nVidia, as we do with AMD”
This is plain lie. There previous statement in the same bloody site stated the very opposite!
And they even use it as the very first sentence! They have to really think we are all stupid as a can of Spam.